Add Fractional Reserve Banking and the Federal Reserve to that list. That's what's really screwing us.

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quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Add Fractional Reserve Banking and the Federal Reserve to that list.

Agreed.....(I wanted to keep the post short)

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That's what's really screwing us.

Possible...but,
I think that the REAL downfall will come from personal debt, rather than at the Federal level.

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Originally posted by zookeeper The American population seems to be very concerned about the "War on Terror", "War on Drugs" and the "Iraq War". I believe there is a more sinister, covert, and long term "War" that we should focus on, "The War of the American People's Finances". An average American family has $8300.00 of credit card debt and 80% of all credit cards are controlled by 5 financial entities, a large amount of financial control in a small group. We are seeing individuals purchasing large homes, of which they are not qualified, taking on 30 year and now even 40 year "interest only" monster loans, with disturbing regularity. Americans are under an assault of marketing, with constant reminders of how fancy homes, impulse shopping sprees (usually targeting females)and accumulation of goods equals happiness and a high status. I'm frightened by statements like these, "It's ONLY one hundred dollars", "Only 10 EASY payments" and "No interest for a WHOLE year!" The obsession with credit has given rise to a whole new breed of scam artist and loan shark, for lack of a better term. APRs of 19%, 28% and even higher ensure that a debtor is totally fuct for the rest of their days. Nothing like graduating and suddenly having to pay a $650.00 per month student loan payment, which if you default on a G.S.L. you are REALLY fuct then. Debt will be the true downfall of United States. What do you think?

I think we got ourselves another economics major in our midst. Finance? Maybe accounting. How many government majors do we have?

-sigh-

You kids. Some of you have your hearts in the right place, and ya certainly got the brains, but so young and impressionable.

Anyway, thats just what I think. Heres what everyone else thinks.

Last edited by josh4 on Apr-26-2006 at 07:37

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Originally posted by zookeeper The American population seems to be very concerned about the "War on Terror"...

Most people have been desensitized by 9/11. There is a movie comming out about flight 93, and the only people actually fighting this movie are the widowed "victims". We won't be concerned about the war on terror until Bin Laden is captured, then of course, the american people will think that the war on terror is over. Sadly, the war on terror will never end.

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"War on Drugs"

Americans haven't given a shit since reagan left office. The only time the war on drugs is even mentioned, is when a drug is made illegal (ex. Salvia).

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and the "Iraq War".

Americans are only concerned, when people die. That's all, end of discussion.

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Originally posted by Josh4 You kids. Some of you have your hearts in the right place, and ya certainly got the brains, but so young and impressionable.

Get off your rocking chair grandpa. Your wisdom from living so long gives you the right to dismiss an idea?

quote:

Originally posted by zookeeper The American population seems to be very concerned about the "War on Terror", "War on Drugs" and the "Iraq War". I believe there is a more sinister, covert, and long term "War" that we should focus on, "The War of the American People's Finances". An average American family has $8300.00 of credit card debt and 80% of all credit cards are controlled by 5 financial entities, a large amount of financial control in a small group. We are seeing individuals purchasing large homes, of which they are not qualified, taking on 30 year and now even 40 year "interest only" monster loans, with disturbing regularity. Americans are under an assault of marketing, with constant reminders of how fancy homes, impulse shopping sprees (usually targeting females)and accumulation of goods equals happiness and a high status. I'm frightened by statements like these, "It's ONLY one hundred dollars", "Only 10 EASY payments" and "No interest for a WHOLE year!" The obsession with credit has given rise to a whole new breed of scam artist and loan shark, for lack of a better term. APRs of 19%, 28% and even higher ensure that a debtor is totally fuct for the rest of their days. Nothing like graduating and suddenly having to pay a $650.00 per month student loan payment, which if you default on a G.S.L. you are REALLY fuct then. Debt will be the true downfall of United States. What do you think?

I agree 100% with you. I'll add that these people buy all these good, services, and "assets" then end up being a slave to them. They watch TV programs and read magazines that tell them how to live their lives and how to spend their money. They work at jobs they don't like to afford things they don't need. I sound like Tyler Durden, but this is true.


The U.S. Government recently raised the debt limit to 9 trillion dollars. If they hadn't, then the government would have begun defaulting on debt. And Bush and the Republicans still push for tax cuts to be permanent when we're a huge debt, in the middle of an occupation, and the verge of another war. And don't forget the money we're borrowing from China and the huge trade deficit with them.

I agree that the american consumer is up to his eyeballs in debt and that is a bad thing. Particularly when you realize that interest rates have gone back up and that mortgage equity withdrawal (people basically using their homes as an ATM to finance ridiculous purchases) has propped up consumer spending. Coupled with already sky-high energy prices, I think this country is headed for a consumer led recession which could potentially do serious damage to the economy. Remember that consumer spending makes up over 2/3 of the U.S. economy.

Bottom line, I don't see how consumer spending can keep growing, let alone maintain the current trend given the aforementioned reasons.

The upside of course is that with the ensuing fall off in demand, things like energy prices will hopefully fall back to more rational levels, but that's even questionable given the rapid growth of emerging markets like China, India, Russia, Brazil, etc. Yes, I'm bearish and pessimistic. Frankly, I don't understand how economic data continues to be so strong!

There are many more nations in the world with higher Debt to GDP than the USA.

Its not that the US is screwed, its just that it will be if it keeps this up...

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You know my economic teacher said debt was good as long as it went back to something that would be an investment. the thing is that many Americans are stupid and spend more than they earn however my family doesn't so we have no debt. So HA!

credit is a good thing. It can be misused though, and it is.

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Originally posted by Yoepus There are many more nations in the world with higher Debt to GDP than the USA. Its not that the US is screwed, its just that it will be if it keeps this up...

Likewise I'm unsure how fractional banking or the fed are tanking the economy. If that's the case than the entire world economy is screwed as I'm troubled to think of any economy (much less successful economies) that don't employ modern banking concepts such as those.

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Originally posted by josh4 I think we got ourselves another economics major in our midst. Finance? Maybe accounting. How many government majors do we have? -sigh- You kids. Some of you have your hearts in the right place, and ya certainly got the brains, but so young and impressionable.

Graduating college in 1991 (Fine Art), I'm tickled that you think that I'm an econ/finance/govt. major.

I have just been around long enough to see this very disturbing trend of personal spending develop.
I remember when a "Gold Card" was something that was only given to the upper 1% income earners, credit card issuers used that image of success to market to "dreamers" who really wanted to live "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous". Now, I can rattle off at least 7 shows, that I know of, that use the same formula.