I probably could have fit this in another thread somewhere but I couldn't see where it could have gone....anyways, hopefully this gets resolved quick-fast lest the Palenstinians wishing they were actually under Israeli control...
(for the record I'm not suggesting that they should but don't be surprised if Israel steps up if things get too bad).

quote:

Fierce Gaza fighting sparks fears of civil war Rival Palestinian leaders traded accusations of coup and assassination attempts on Tuesday as intensified factional violence once again threatened to plunge Gaza into civil war. Heavy gun battles erupted in several locations as Hamas's armed wing stepped up attacks on rival Fatah security positions. Several Fatah commanders loyal to President Mahmoud Abbas expressed frustration with a lack of orders to fight back. Some 200 Hamas fighters surrounded the headquarters of Fatah-allied forces in northern Gaza. The attackers fired mortar shells and rocket-propelled grenades at the compound, where some 500 security officers were holed up. "They are attacking from all sides," said one of the officers, Khaled Awad. At least four smaller security bases were overrun by Hamas in the southern town of Khan Younis. Earlier Tuesday, a rocket-propelled grenade struck the home of Hamas Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh in the Shati refugee camp in Gaza City, the second attack on his residence in as many days Hamas called the attack an assassination attempt by Fatah. There were no injuries. Abbas, who is in the West Bank, appealed for a new ceasefire and accused Hamas of "planning to stage a coup against the legitimate institutions" and trying to gain control of Gaza by force. Earlier, four mortar shells hit Abbas's Gaza City compound, but caused no injuries. In the West Bank, Fatah gunmen kidnapped a deputy cabinet minister from Hamas and threatened to retaliate to the attacks by killing other Hamas leaders. 'Gaza is burning now' The battles once again brought civilian life in Gaza to a standstill Tuesday, as residents locked themselves indoors. University exams were cancelled, despite an earlier ceasefire called to allow students to finish the school year in relative peace. "Gaza is burning now by the hands of Palestinians," journalist Hamza el-Attar told CBC News Tuesday in a telephone interview. "Bullets are everywhere." Hopes of a ceasefire to halt clashes that have killed at least 18 people in the last 24 hours appeared crushed as exasperated Egyptian mediators said the bitter rivals turned down an appeal to meet for truce talks. A Fatah spokesman said the movement would decide in the next few hours whether to stay in the three-month-old coalition government. The most recent violence has seen people on both sides shot at close range in street executions, while others died in shootouts, including one inside a hospital. The violence stems from a dispute over which side would control security forces as part of the coalition government agreement between Hamas and Fatah. At least 80 people have died in the factional battles since May. A Palestinian youth looks out of the damaged house of Fatah leader Jamal Al-Jedyan on Tuesday after it was attacked and burned by militants in northern Gaza. Gunmen, apparently from Hamas, laid siege to the house of the senior Fatah official late Monday, then dragged him outside and killed him, security officials said. Medics reported that he was hit with 45 bullets. (Wissam Nassar-MannImages/Associated Press)

>>Source<<

Or course, now that the Palenstinians are fighting amoungst themselves, the Palestine-can-do-no-wrong crowd goes silent?
Come out, come out, wherever you are...
What's your take on this?
I'm not trying to be an ass here, I'm genuinely curious what your thought are...

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Did you have a wank when you heard this news?!

It's been coming for a long time, very sad and pathetic in a way.

What do you think the causes are Firestarter?

Personally I think the main reason is the lack of funding for the PA, it's driven people to desperation. But then Hamas and Fatah have been mortal enemies since Hamas arrived on the scene (and should be a lesson to everybody not to lazily lump Arab militants into one harmonious group like America did before the Iraq war!)

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Personally I think the main reason is the lack of funding for the PA, it's driven people to desperation. But then Hamas and Fatah have been mortal enemies since Hamas arrived on the scene (and should be a lesson to everybody not to lazily lump Arab militants into one harmonious group like America did before the Iraq war!)

read power struggle.

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quote:

Originally posted by Omega_M read power struggle.

True. But it would be more accurate to say power struggle in the absence of a viable state

I think Hamas was voted in for the wrong reason.

People viewed them as heroes for their obvious involvement with removing Isreal from Palestine but evidently, that view was shortsighted since they seemingly 'forgot' that Hama's agenda ultimately includes Isreal's destruction.

Why should anyone be surprised be any of the current actions of Hamas, etc.?

Good luck to them trying to get rid of Hamas now if thats what it comes to...

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley True. But it would be more accurate to say power struggle in the absence of a viable state

I would agree with that.

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

If Hamas takes over, the Palestinians will just suffer even more. They will continue to attack Israel and provoke them to make more incursions and precision strikes. Hopefully, terrorism won't prevail.

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quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley True. But it would be more accurate to say power struggle in the absence of a viable state

everything is (has been for years ) in place for there to be a viable state. hell, two damn states. gimme a frikken break.

nothing but misplaced sympathy and excuses. no shortage of that around here and around the world. do you think that is really whats needed FFS?

Only party that wins in this 'civil war' is Israel

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quote:

Originally posted by chinamon not true. i say "ugh" but i am a tranny.

quote:

Originally posted by kotsy lol colour me retarded

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r I think Hamas was voted in for the wrong reason. People viewed them as heroes for their obvious involvement with removing Isreal from Palestine but evidently, that view was shortsighted since they seemingly 'forgot' that Hama's agenda ultimately includes Isreal's destruction.

Hamas has it's "core" support in Palestine just as every other political party in the world has it's core support. I think Hamas' core support vote for them for the reasons you mentioned but the reason they won is because the Palestinians were fed up with corruption in the PA (and the ruling Fatah party). Disillusionment with the prevailing government is a reaccuring theme within Arab nationalism. The ideology (like most of those brands of socialism) offer to modernise and implement policies for the social good. Unfortunately, they tend to go the way of authoritarianism and find it difficult to implement the policies they dreampt of. Cue the rise of Islamism - the next ideology promising to right societies wrongs (also Islam is usually turned to as a legitimising force by an Arab-Muslim population when faced with oppression etc)

I think Fatah probably went down the road of typical Arab nationalist regimes, and the Palestinian population went down the road typical of Arab Muslims.

Should point out Political Islam is not a problem in itself, only in the more extreme "al-Qaida" variety (which Hamas/Hizballah are not I dont think). The ideology of the White House, for example, could be compared to a lot of streams of Political Islam (and that's not a criticism btw)

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo everything is (has been for years ) in place for there to be a viable state. hell, two damn states. gimme a frikken break. nothing but misplaced sympathy and excuses. no shortage of that around here and around the world. do you think that is really whats needed FFS?

Thanks for that imput, you really helped the debate!

What do you define as a "viable state" and how is what you describe in place in Palestine?

Great.........

quote:

EU resumes aid to Palestinian government Gesture of faith in unity coalition comes as shots fired on PM's offices CanWest News Services; with files from Reuters; Agence France-Presse Published: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 GAZA CITY - The European Union resumed aid to the Palestinian finance ministry yesterday, for the first time since the West launched an economic boycott of the Islamist Hamas government more than a year ago. But the gesture of renewed faith came amid more violence, including shots fired at the offices of the Palestinian prime minister, which cast fresh doubt on the future of the fragile unity coalition. Israeli and western officials reported that funds from Arab and European donors are being used to lift a 15-month embargo of the Hamas-led Palestinian Authority. The funding is being released with the backing of the U.S. administration, prompting some Israeli officials to decry what they see as a shift in U.S. policy aimed at bolstering Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas and currying Arab states' support.Mr. Abbas's secular Fatah faction joined a unity government led by Hamas three months ago. "The Palestinian Authority's financial position is much better today than six months ago. We are losing," said a senior Israeli official involved in overseeing the economic embargo imposed after Hamas defeated Fatah in a March 2006 election. Hamas refuses to recognize the Israeli state and is listed as a terrorist group by Canada and other western nations In the month since Washington said donors could send funds to Finance Minister Salam Fayyad through a Palestine Liberation Organization account, the account has received at least $160 million. The EU said yesterday it is renewing support for the Palestinian finance ministry, starting with a $5.3-million U.S. project to monitor the growing flow of donor funds. Diplomats said the EU is also considering expanding an existing aid mechanism to pay Palestinian police. Israel has objected to paying police because they technically fall under the Hamas-run interior ministry. Meanwhile, renewed Palestinian factional fighting killed 15 people in Gaza, bringing to 21 the number of people killed in the lawless territory since a new bout of internecine bloodshed between Hamas and Fatah erupted last week. "Everybody is shooting at everybody," a doctor at the Beit Hanoun hospital in the northern Gaza Strip said, hours after another Egyptian-brokered ceasefire collapsed. The series of truces have failed to end the strife in which more than 600 Palestinians are estimated to have been killed since Hamas came to power. The heavy fighting in Gaza also cast a shadow over the future of the Hamas-Fatah unity coalition, formed three months ago. In fact, yesterday, gunmen fired from nearby rooftops on the offices of Hamas Prime Minister Ismail Haniya, forcing ministers to interrupt a cabinet meeting and flee. No one was hurt in the attack, which the government blamed on Fatah. Fatah denied its fighters were responsible for the shots. In spite of the violence and tensions, the EU agreed yesterday to pay the international accounting firm Ernst & Young to provide support and training of finance ministry officials in the territories. "This support for the ministry ... will help me ensure that we work in accordance with the best international standards, and that the government can give every Palestinian taxpayer the assurance that their money is being legally and honestly spent," the finance minister said. The EU, one of the biggest Palestinian donors, suspended direct aid to the Hamas government after last year's election.However, the European Commission decided to renew its assistance after Hamas formed a national unity government and appointed Mr. Fayyad, a political independent and widely respected economist. Despite the freeze on direct aid, the EU channelled $934 million of indirect support to the territories in 2006. Meanwhile, in advance of a visit to Washington next week and possible talks with Middle East power brokers in Egypt later in the month, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said he was "prepared to renew talks ... at any time" with Mr. Abbas. Mr. Abbas cancelled talks with Mr. Olmert last week in a dispute over Israel's withholding of Palestinian tax revenues. A senior aide to Mr. Abbas said the president stood ready to meet Mr. Olmert any time -- once Israel released the money. Israel collects the funds on behalf of the Palestinian Authority on goods routed through Israel. Chief Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erakat says the total amount of money currently owed is $600 million. Israel transferred $100 million after a summit between Mr. Olmert and Mr. Abbas last December.

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen...80-5048956e2c62

Look everybody wat's done by Israel

quote:

Mr. Abbas cancelled talks with Mr. Olmert last week in a dispute over Israel's withholding of Palestinian tax revenues. A senior aide to Mr. Abbas said the president stood ready to meet Mr. Olmert any time -- once Israel released the money. Israel collects the funds on behalf of the Palestinian Authority on goods routed through Israel. Chief Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erakat says the total amount of money currently owed is $600 million. Israel transferred $100 million after a summit between Mr. Olmert and Mr. Abbas last December.

Damn apartheid

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