Sorry Mr. Limbaugh, but the sun is not responsible for global warming.. Opus, call in and say something!!

--------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/ma...1/scisun111.xml

'Sun not responsible for climate change'

By Roger Highfield, Science Editor
Last Updated: 12:01am BST 11/07/2007

The strongest evidence to date that the sun is not responsible for recent global warming has been set out by scientists.

The new study by Prof Michael Lockwood of the Rutherford Appleton Laboratory, near Oxfordshire, and Claus Fröhlich of the World Radiation Center in Davos, Switzerland, overturns claims by climate sceptics who say that the planet's climate has long fluctuated and that current warming is just part of that natural cycle - the result of variation in the sun's output and not greenhouse gas emissions. Their study appears in the Proceedings of the Royal Society A.

The sun not responsible for global warming
A new study further enforces the view that the sun is not responsible for recent climate change

The study found that global warming since 1985 has been caused neither by an increase in solar radiation nor by a decrease in the flux of galactic cosmic rays.

Some researchers had also suggested that the latter might influence global warming because the rays trigger cloud formation.

Prof Lockwood said that the comprehensive study was a response to misleading media reports. He cited 'The Great Global Warming Swindle', a television programme shown in March by Channel 4, as a prime example.

"All the graphs they showed stopped in about 1980, and I knew why, because things diverged afterwards. You can't just ignore bits of data that you don't like," he said. "The key point of our paper is that since 1985 all the possible solar influences have been in the wrong direction to give warming," said Prof Lockwood.
advertisement
Telegraph - Menswear/Shoes

Although some have tried to counter this by arguing that the response of the Earth's climate system lags behind changes in the sun, Prof Lockwood added that the only way for this to work would be by invoking a very large response lag of the order of 50 years which would overturn previous ideas of how the Sun influences the Earth.

"This paper is the final nail in the coffin for people who would like to make the sun responsible for present global warming," Stefan Rahmstorf, a climate scientist at the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research in Germany, told the journal Nature.

The new study compiled solar data for the past 100 years. The two researchers averaged out the 11-year solar cycles and looked for correlation between solar variation and global mean temperatures. Solar activity peaked between 1985 and 1987.

But mainstream scientists agree that the sun does have some influence on fluctuations in the Earth's temperature. As Prof Lockwood said: " I do firmly believe that there is a solar influence on pre-industrial climate and that may well have extended into the last century - up to about 1940 - but our results confirm that recent climate change is not caused by the sun. We do this with a simple and direct analysis of data and not using climate computer models - which are often a cause of scepticism."

A spokesman for the Royal Society said: "This is an important contribution to the scientific debate on climate change. At present there is a small minority which is seeking to deliberately confuse the public on the causes of climate change. They are often misrepresenting the science, when the reality is that the evidence is getting stronger every day. We have reached a point where a failure to take action to reduce carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gas emissions would be irresponsible and dangerous."

___________________

Last edited by Krypton on Oct-12-2007 at 16:00

The issue isn't with what Gore has accomplished, which, if anything, is at least awareness.
A great accomplishment in and of itself.

It's the science behind it thats suspect and what those on the other side of the fence have issue with.

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r The issue isn't with what Gore has accomplished, which, if anything, is at least awareness. A great accomplishment in and of itself. It's the science behind it thats suspect and what those on the other side of the fence have issue with.

I don't think so. This is not a scientific issue. This is a political issue. And those who the polluting corporations support with millions of dollars (lobbyists) are spinning the science to serve their interests, which are to preserve the status quo of plundering the earth.

Sorry, but in scientific circles, the consensus is unanimous. People like Limbaugh are so partisan, they will never accept global warming as fact even in the face of overwhelming scientific evidence, even nobel prizes.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton I don't think so. This is not a scientific issue. This is a political issue. And those who the polluting corporations support with millions of dollars (lobbyists) are spinning the science to serve their interests, which are to preserve the status quo of plundering the earth.

The new 'plundering' are those making millions on the new 'global warming' scare.
I have nothing against companies wanting to become more environmentally friendly, that's great, however I have issue with this whole carbon neutral business that has sprung up with no accountability or governance whatsoever.
At this point, any company/business/entity can say they've invested in becoming carbon neutral but where exactly does that money go?
Are we, as rational people supposed to just believe them because that's what their PR people telling us?

Gore himself is a great example of this hypocracy after purchasing carbon credits from a company in which he resides as a chair member!

Some more global warming stinkyness...(again Gore being the pivot point)

quote:

Former Vice President Al Gore has built a Green money-making machine capable of eventually generating billions of dollars for investors, including himself, but he set it up so that the average Joe can’t afford to play on Gore’s terms. And the US portion is headed up by a former Gore staffer and fund raiser who previously ran afoul of both the FEC and the DOJ, before Janet Reno jumped in and shut down an investigation during the Clinton years.

>>Source<<

quote:

Sorry, but in scientific circles, the consensus is unanimous. People like Limbaugh are so partisan, they will never accept global warming as fact even in the face of overwhelming scientific evidence, even nobel prizes.

The only consensus among scientists though is that, yes, the earth is getting warmer.
There are loads of papers and theories as to why though.
Everything from humans being the issue, to normal earthly cycles to interplanetary orbits (again a cycle).
There is absolutely NO consensus on the science. More and more scientists are finally coming out from the dark, daring to speak out against the mighty Gore mantra and zealots.
This is far from over...

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r The issue isn't with what Gore has accomplished, which, if anything, is at least awareness. A great accomplishment in and of itself. It's the science behind it thats suspect and what those on the other side of the fence have issue with.

If the opposite view of that becomes any more popular this view could very well fall into the lines of conspiracy theory.

Oooohh noeess, they cooked the scientific books on climate change! Don't be fooled by the environmentalist agenda! Hybrid black helicopters coming at cha!

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r The only consensus among scientists though is that, yes, the earth is getting warmer. There are loads of papers and theories as to why though. Everything from humans being the issue, to normal earthly cycles to interplanetary orbits (again a cycle). There is absolutely NO consensus on the science. More and more scientists are finally coming out from the dark, daring to speak out against the mighty Gore mantra and zealots. This is far from over...

Umm, I never knew so many scientists who's sole job is to examine the evidence as objective as possible could be viewed as "zealots." What you describe, however, fits the EXACT description of the Right Wing skeptics who've invested a great amount of time and money in hiring a few scant scientists who have differing views, often times unsupported by the evidence that exists. Who the fuck should we consider as the zealots - scientists or hired guns for the coal/oil industries such as Dr. Robert Balling who published an article in Tech Central Station attacking Gore:

http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=052406F

and who just so happens to have received over $400,000 from ExxonMobile, OPEC, and the fossil fuels industry from the past decade?:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.ph...bert_C._Balling

Or how about Philip Cooney, former chief of staff to President Bush’s Council on Environmental Quality who back in March of this year in a testimony to the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee flat out stated he fixed certain facts around the policy for the Bush Administration:

quote:

Mr. Cooney, I guess what we’re trying to figure out is whether what drove the policy and is driving the policy of this administration on global warming and climate change is the science or whether it’s something called the politically correct science. And as I look at the edits that you’ve proposed, I think there were a… (UNKNOWN): Mr. Chairman, while you’re looking for those, may I just ask some questions of the chair? WAXMAN: Excuse me, the gentleman’s out of order. (UNKNOWN): I think, Mr. Chairman, a point of order. Did you recognize yourself for an additional five minutes before the rest of the panel has a chance to question for five minutes? WAXMAN: No, I did not. I recognize Mr. Issa first for the second round. You proposed 181 edits to the strategic plan, 113 edits to the other global warming reports. There were three reports. I guess what I’m trying to find out is whether all of your proposed edits moved in one direction, which was to increase the uncertainty in global warming science. Would that be a fair statement or an unfair statement? COONEY: I think the fair statement would be that my comments were aligned with the findings of the National Academy of Sciences in June 2001, as emphasized by the president in his policy book in chapter 3 on June 11th, 2001. WAXMAN: Mr. Cooney, you had a senior position at the White House, but there were officials in the White House who were more senior to you. Your immediate boss was James Connaughton, chairman of the White House Council on Environmental Quality. Was Mr. Connaughton aware of your role in the proposed edits for climate change reports? COONEY: He knew that we were reviewing reports as they came in, ordinarily from OMB from review. WAXMAN: Did he personally review your edits? COONEY: No, not most of them. (UNKNOWN): Mr. Chairman… WAXMAN: Would you discuss… (UNKNOWN): Mr. Chairman, his boss is behind him and is available. WAXMAN: Excuse, but I have the time. I didn’t interrupt you. I waited till you were finished and then I interrupted you. Did you discuss the edits with him? COONEY: No, not ordinarily. WAXMAN: Did he give you any instructions about how any of these three documents should be edited? COONEY: No. He understood that my objective was to align these communications with the administration’s stated policy. http://oversight.house.gov/story.asp?ID=1214

Hmmmm, "communications" being aligned around the administration's stated policy. Sound familiar?

Sound objective to you?

Jesus you're statements couldn't be more ironic.

And speaking of consensus, here's a commentary back in 2004:

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/conte.../306/5702/1686#

In 2005:

http://nationalacademies.org/onpi/06072005.pdf

And the IPCC report back in March:

http://www.usatoday.com/weather/cli...cc-report_x.htm

All having very large (i.e. majority of) scientific bodies stating the exact same idea: global warming being the result of human influence.

Strange how such a "consensus" isn't really a consensus in scientific knowledge, according to you.

Not to mention one of Bush's top scientific advisers stating he's about 90% certain that global warming is the result of mankind's actions:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6994760.stm

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

Last edited by MisterOpus1 on Oct-12-2007 at 18:24

IS that Glenn Beck? I love that show.


I love it how people like to show polls on world opinions, this is just hilarious this thread has nothing to contribute. Gore got a price for going around the world wining about global warming a long with it some obvious results on world opinion. Now I do support Liras cause to take these type of threads away

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton College tuition should be free, so should healthcare.

quote:

Originally posted by LatinLover IS that Glenn Beck? I love that show.

Ummm, what? Too many bong hits, son?

quote:

I love it how people like to show polls on world opinions,

As do I - it enhances my point as to what the vast majority of the world believes and understands, which by the way the U.S. within that majority as well. But I am talking to someone with such superior intellect that would have already known this.

quote:

this is just hilarious this thread has nothing to contribute.

Acknowledging a Nobel Peace Prize winner and why he won the award is nothing to contribute?

By all means do share with us your vast intellect as to why.

quote:

Gore got a price for going around the world wining about global warming a long with it some obvious results on world opinion.

Ummm, okay. Not exactly sure what "price" Gore got for it, but I'm sure with your vast intellect you're clearly talking way over our head on this, even when you're speaking in your second language.....

quote:

Now I do support Liras cause to take these type of threads away

I doubt Lira would agree with your idiocy. By all means go ahead and ask him and find out for us all.

You still here, son? Why haven't you enlisted yet? I'm just curious, but considering English is your second language and you live in Miami, how long have you been a U.S. citizen? Please drop your pride and join the military to help fight for your cause, soon. Clearly the military and Pentagon brass could truly use your vast intellect to help "win" our war in Iraq. No need to continue wasting your time with us inferiors here........

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r The new 'plundering' are those making millions on the new 'global warming' scare.

You honestly don't think this guy has good intentions and a desire to better his fellow humanity?

He donated the cash from the prize to charity too...

I swear, half of us are so cynical and jaded that we wouldn't recognize a good thing if it poked us in the eye.

MisterOpus2,

Is that all you can do is bitch about why I dont enlist in the military for the cause that i support? That is the most common and oldest statement a far left on someone that supports out troops and want them to be victorious. That statement is older than Jesus.

Let me ask you, what have you dont for this country? What have you done to make this country a better place for the future? Have you volunteered in the Arm services yourself?

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton College tuition should be free, so should healthcare.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Shibby You honestly don't think this guy has good intentions and a desire to better his fellow humanity? He donated the cash from the prize to charity too... I swear, half of us are so cynical and jaded that we wouldn't recognize a good thing if it poked us in the eye.

While collecting millions on the side via his own Church de Global Chauffage? Yea, he's a swell guy...
Again, there's no doubt his sermon on actual awareness, it's all the science he choose behind it...

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."