Just some things I've been thinking about for quite a while now.

How strong of a vision do you have about the tracks you're working on? How much feedback are you willing to take into consideration from other people?

I'm just wondering because I keep seeing these threads where people post 2 minute clips into the promotion forum and then ask people what they should be doing next... and I just don't get it. It seems like people obsess too much over production quality and the artistic vision is completely forgotten. In my opinion the vision should be the strongest part of a producer/composer, I'd much rather have an amazing track with adequate production than the other way around.

Ah well, maybe I'm just rambling... any thoughts?

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Latest releases:
Endless Cycles [Capital Heaven]
The Charlatan [Morphosis]

Vision plays a huge part in a track once I sit down to make it. I think "OK, I'm going to make a track in THIS vein.", be it Trance, House, Progressive or whatever. I have to have an idea where I am going as I have never had much success just sitting down and just messing around until I come up with something good. Sometimes you find happy accidents, but most of the time thats within the context of the larger artistic vision for the track.

It seems to me that a large part of what makes the tracks I like is good arrangement and chord structure. I've spent the majority of my time on my recent tracks getting those two things right. Once that is finished, the production quality part becomes a lot easier. So many good tracks in the past might not have had the best production, but it was their melodies and structure that made them great. Granted, that doesn't mean you can slack off on the production side, but there is an acceptable margin there. It doesn't have to be absolutely pristine.

Last edited by Eric J on Nov-10-2007 at 18:43

i tend to focus on the artistic side to it which sometimes i spend to much time on and the production lacks slightly. lately ive been concentrating on improving the production quality and i have yet to finish a track. sometimes its probably better to stick with what your doing, if its not broke don't fix it.

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i agree with you nik. i think people are a little too wrapped up in making what they think will be commercially successful instead of just making what they like...

My songs are like my kids. Sometimes you just don't see that your kids are shit and you need someone to tell you. Many times I think I hear something amazing only to have someone tell me it's shit. I ask them why they think my song is empty or whatever problem is wrong with my song and take that into consideration, because a lot of people have bad taste in music and are likely to be wrong.

Also, sometimes people just don't know what to add next. Some songs, the muse just takes over you and suddenly you've got a song where it's taken a whole different direction, and I guess some people just didn't expect that and they get stuck. *shrug*

Making a good listenable song imo isn't easy. When adding new elements, that element might sound incoherant to your song. When taking out stuff, it'll sound empty, when you automate something it doesn't turn out the way you want it to be automated etc.

Last edited by Internet TufGai on Nov-10-2007 at 20:22

I usually start with a basic idea and let the song lead me to it's finished state. Only problem is that I do get caught up in the production aspect rather quickly because it annoys me, and lose sight of the original intention. By that point I've completely lost my creative groove and have no idea what to do next.

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I usually put a song here when I post it , but there are none at the moment so please come backa gain.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery It seems like people obsess too much over production quality and the artistic vision is completely forgotten.

I think the reason for this lies in the nature of the artistic vision vs. production quality.

Artistic vision is subjective. Now, unless notes are clashing all over the place and there is NO chord structure, you might be out of line to correct someone's 'artistic vision'. It's their vision, and they know what they wrote. However, in the early stages a bit of coaxing in the right direction is nice. It all comes down to whether or not a forum member LIKES the song, since most are in some way likeable.

Production quality is more objective, imo. Here, you'll be hard pressed to convince me that muddy bass and a shitty kick sample were the artist's intentions. But, as we know, after working on a song for some time our ears can get used to the sound. Or, when we have little experience, we don't know what to listen for to get that kick sitting in there right.

Artistic vision (again, unless it's downright dreadful) is going to lean toward opinion, whereas production quality is going to lean toward fact.

For me, artistic vision can't be taught, whereas production methods can. As a result the vision comes with time and experience, and production quality comes from time, experience, and a shitload of advice from other people listening to my tune.

That is exactly why I'm taking a hefty amount of time away from producing. The whole "making it sound clean and perfect" thing has been making me go bonkers. I'm pretty impatient as well, if I feel something is taking too long and it's not coming out clean as far as production goes I will rush it through or just throw it away. I need to go back to watching cheesey sci-fi flicks and get some artistic inspiration and vision back.

quote:

Originally posted by 3F05Q For me, artistic vision can't be taught, whereas production methods can. As a result the vision comes with time and experience, and production quality comes from time, experience, and a shitload of advice from other people listening to my tune.

See, this is the part where I disagree - artistic vision is something you either have or don't, it doesn't come with time and/or experience.

It just seems to me like a lot of people don't even seem to care about the end result. They only obsess about the process itself. To me it's always been the other way around - I want to get the production over with as soon as possible so I can take a look at the end result, the bigger picture.

Of course there's no right or wrong here, some people are composers and some producers. That's the way it's always been and will be.

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Latest releases:
Endless Cycles [Capital Heaven]
The Charlatan [Morphosis]

but what a greyarea... i mean no offense but you should be able to write all your midi notes in just a few hours time, from there it's all about your ability to make those sounds move, shape, grow over time.

artistic expression vs being a producer who's worried about the technical side of things seems to want the same end result? because what you're ultimatly comparing is your ability to be creative in an in enviornment where your sound shaping skills are related to your production experience.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery See, this is the part where I disagree - artistic vision is something you either have or don't...

I agree with this. But that wasn't my point and I should elaborate. I was referring to that initial learning experience. For example, my artistic vision changed when I got a hardware synth. It also changed when I went from Reason to Live. I'll say: you either have the means/potential for an artistic vision, or you don't.

quote:

Also posted by Mr.Mystery ...it doesn't come with time and/or experience.

If a person has never saw down at a keyboard and a DAW, or any instrument for that matter, then they have not yet fully developed their artistic vision. It is shaped by what is already known.

quote:

Mr.Mystery's OP I'm just wondering because I keep seeing these threads... It seems like people obsess too much over production quality and the artistic vision is completely forgotten.

I think you answered your own question though. You don't see inquiries about artistic vision because...

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery artistic vision is something you either have or don't.

Therefore the next subject to ask in the production promotion forum is, "How's my production quality?"

Last edited by 3F05Q on Nov-10-2007 at 22:36

I think artistic vision can be taught in a way, but when you express it, some of it comes out unconciously.

I don't think anyone is genetically born with artistic vision or creativity, you get your creativity from your influences and through experimenting.

Artistic vision is much more important than production quality. Good arrangement > a good mix and master if you chose to do it. If everything sounds good but the arrangement is shit it's not going to sound good.

edit:

in the end though you're going to need both. How exactly are you going to express what you want if your bass and kick don't mesh well? What if you suck at programming your synths?