If all else fails, I'm moving to Iceland..

They'll survive anything..

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US surveillence is among the worst

Or among the best depending on which way you look at it!

IIRC, the UK has more CCTV per person than any other country in the world. To be honest, I guess I am one of these people that say if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear. At the same time, whatever is used to curtail civil liberties must have a advantageous use. So while I can see the positives of CCTV, I am also against ID Cards (which is an issue in the UK right now) as I cannot see their value (despite not being afraid of them, altho I am afraid of the £90 it will cost me!!)

I guess it depends what CCTV is used for. I can only speak from my experiences in the UK and I don't really think anyone but the usual left-wing suspects are particularly concerned about them, in fact I think most people see them as extremely useful in fighting crime.

Maybe in America, where you have more of an "anti-Federal government interferring with my life" kind of attitude, and have stock pies of ammunition in your nuclear bunker in case the Communists try and attack you, then maybe you will have different opinions!

While CCTV is inevitably used by the intelligence services, there are laws and practicalities that prevent them from using it to monitor somebody like me, so I don't think I need to be afraid they are following me around (even if they did then so what?). I don't think I have any thing to be afraid of by CCTV because there is nothing that I think everyone should be free to do that CCTV will prevent (eg I think certain drugs should be legal but CCTV cannot be used to stop people taking drugs or convict them for doing so)

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Originally posted by George Smiley Or among the best depending on which way you look at it! IIRC, the UK has more CCTV per person than any other country in the world. To be honest, I guess I am one of these people that say if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear. At the same time, whatever is used to curtail civil liberties must have a advantageous use. So while I can see the positives of CCTV, I am also against ID Cards (which is an issue in the UK right now) as I cannot see their value (despite not being afraid of them, altho I am afraid of the £90 it will cost me!!) I guess it depends what CCTV is used for. I can only speak from my experiences in the UK and I don't really think anyone but the usual left-wing suspects are particularly concerned about them, in fact I think most people see them as extremely useful in fighting crime. Maybe in America, where you have more of an "anti-Federal government interferring with my life" kind of attitude, and have stock pies of ammunition in your nuclear bunker in case the Communists try and attack you, then maybe you will have different opinions! While CCTV is inevitably used by the intelligence services, there are laws and practicalities that prevent them from using it to monitor somebody like me, so I don't think I need to be afraid they are following me around (even if they did then so what?). I don't think I have any thing to be afraid of by CCTV because there is nothing that I think everyone should be free to do that CCTV will prevent (eg I think certain drugs should be legal but CCTV cannot be used to stop people taking drugs or convict them for doing so)

yeah, i'll have to agree with my commonwealth buddy here. im not nearly as afraid of the Oz government as one might be of the US one

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Originally posted by George Smiley Or among the best depending on which way you look at it! IIRC, the UK has more CCTV per person than any other country in the world. To be honest, I guess I am one of these people that say if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear. At the same time, whatever is used to curtail civil liberties must have a advantageous use. So while I can see the positives of CCTV, I am also against ID Cards (which is an issue in the UK right now) as I cannot see their value (despite not being afraid of them, altho I am afraid of the £90 it will cost me!!) I guess it depends what CCTV is used for. I can only speak from my experiences in the UK and I don't really think anyone but the usual left-wing suspects are particularly concerned about them, in fact I think most people see them as extremely useful in fighting crime. Maybe in America, where you have more of an "anti-Federal government interferring with my life" kind of attitude, and have stock pies of ammunition in your nuclear bunker in case the Communists try and attack you, then maybe you will have different opinions! While CCTV is inevitably used by the intelligence services, there are laws and practicalities that prevent them from using it to monitor somebody like me, so I don't think I need to be afraid they are following me around (even if they did then so what?). I don't think I have any thing to be afraid of by CCTV because there is nothing that I think everyone should be free to do that CCTV will prevent (eg I think certain drugs should be legal but CCTV cannot be used to stop people taking drugs or convict them for doing so)

You've got a lot of faith in your politicians then to ensure that your rights and liberties are upheld. Politicians are great examples of "if you've got nothing to hide you've got nothing to fear"!

You don't mind if we install cameras in your home and vehicle right?

Sounds dangerous.

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Originally posted by DJ Shibby You don't mind if we install cameras in your home and vehicle right?

who is advocating this?

and as george states, even if the evil government decided (somehow) to follow my every move, so what? what are they going to do with camera footage of a law-abiding citizen going about their day?

i know its sexy (especially in the US, and with some reason) to see government as nefarious, but i really don't see that as the case in the UK or australia.

surely with the sheer number of CCTVs in the UK we should already be hearing about its misuse if your fears are rational and accurate?

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Originally posted by DJ Shibby You don't mind if we install cameras in your home and vehicle right?

A hell of a lot of people do that off their own back...

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN who is advocating this? and as george states, even if the evil government decided (somehow) to follow my every move, so what? what are they going to do with camera footage of a law-abiding citizen going about their day? i know its sexy (especially in the US, and with some reason) to see government as nefarious, but i really don't see that as the case in the UK or australia. surely with the sheer number of CCTVs in the UK we should already be hearing about its misuse if your fears are rational and accurate?

I can only really speak of my own experience in my own country, as I don't really want to be making assumptions about things I don't know about.

Personally, I just don't like the feeling of being watched. Seems pretty natural and human to me, wouldn't you agree?

I suppose the issue is that lines aren't being drawn as they should in keeping with technology, which is rapidly outpacing old regulation with satellite imaging, invisible cameras, infrared, spectrometry imaging, analysis of data mined phone and internet data, etc.

Hence we are empowering future human error with a green light from the word go.

That's not even getting into the loss of identity that we will undergo over the next few hundred years as a result of our decisions today.

I suppose as usual while we sqawk over extremes, I'd just like to see people sit down and make sure they have the ethical integrity to uphold their democratic principles (human principles?), for the sanity and safety of themselves and their progeny. There's no denying that our species doesn't have the best track record when it comes to this kind of thing, but I also see no evidence suggesting that we don't have the intelligence and capability to change that.

Last edited by DJ Shibby on Jan-09-2008 at 00:11

If you think it's bad in the U.S. right now, just wait a few years...