hey guys.

i been concerned about this for a while now. and the subject interests me a lot.

there is a magical ratio of levels between all the different parts of a techno or trance track. i mean, the level of a kick has to be within a certain ratio range of volume compared to the bass synth for example. a snare cannot be too loud or it is too harsh and monopolises on hid/high headroom. etc etc etc.


now. how cool would it be if you could for instance make a kick that takes up a whole headroom range from 20hz-20,000hz. and this one kick would make up the whole track. a silly example, i know. but i think it wouold be great to hear music that doesnt have to abide by the strict rules of edm mixing, and really stand out as a different sounding track. - while still sounding great on the dancefloor.

anyone think this is possible, or has the optimum recipe for dance music been developed? ie, the best mix of sound for a conventional sound system of cone transducers and tweeters. is loudpseaker technology defineing what music can be created and played in clubs to the point where we all have to stick to strict guidlines in order to fit in?

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i dont go by any rules to be honest. i boost the kick in the high end if i think it will sound good. same for all my sounds.

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The way you mix is to some extent arbitrary (should you boost that hi-hat just a little bit?), but I tend to think that the point of mixing is to cater to how people naturally perceive sound -- basically, to make each element as clear to the listener as possible. The highs generally aren't as loud as the bass for a pretty good reason: people naturally hear highs as "louder" even when they're technically playing at the same volume. If you have a track that's too "bright," people won't want to turn it up as loud as one that's a bit "darker," because the brighter track will grate on their ears more quickly. On the other hand, make it too dark and it will sound "muddy," like someone has a low-pass filter over it.

You can experiment to some extent -- some people have hugely loud snares in their tracks and it actually sounds okay, while I prefer lower-volume ones. Some of it's entirely up to taste, but ultimately the goal in mixing is to attract the listener or at the least not drive him away, not volume-level experimentation as an end in itself. I think it's probably a more productive use of your time to experiment with things like how you program your synths, what sort of melodies you use, and the arrangement of your tracks.

That's how I feel, at least.

Last edited by MrJiveBoJingles on Feb-13-2008 at 14:51

There is quite a degree of variation within the trance genre, with regard to the volumes of individual sounds.

But there are also limitations - if you tried to make a trance track as hot and loud as a modern rock track, by having far more energy in the midrange, your kick would be tiny because there's no room for it. If your track works with a tiny kick, fine.

There are many styles of music and you'll notice each style has a broad sonic "ballpark" which marks out the style. Within this ballpark lies a huge range of creative freedom.

I think if you went quite wild with your instrumentation/ processing, it would still be electronic music, but it may no longer sound like trance. Not that labels should concern you - make the music you want to hear!

Trance and EDM are like any other style of music, you want all the instruments to be heard, and you don't want any to be overbearing. For instance, you wouldn't produce a heavy metal song with the bass louder than the guitar, voice, or drums. This isn't any different for EDM. There's no "magic" formula that I can see. You could try experimenting, but I doubt people would accept it. Music is listened to the same way pretty much, across styles and genres.

I notice that a lot of older Trance has a booming kick, you don't hear that much anymore. Now days kicks blend in with the music a lot more, present, but not overbearing. I personally like it that way. The booming kick just seems dated now.

Who knows what the future of EDM holds, if someone starts experimenting and it catches on, it could take hold. Breaking the rules and experimenting is how inovation happens. I'm sure not going to be the one to do it though.

For me, Mixing is a lot like cooking. It´s all about relative levels. You know, boosting high frequencies in EQ can help, but only if you use the right amount of it. Same with pepper. If you use to much, your food will suck, but if you use it gently, it will just spice up your meals.

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i find it extremely important to have the same levels on all elements in my tracks, mostly beacuse their very full in the sound. as long as we have the loudness war its not much room for quit elements really. tho i hear some livesets from time to time where they dont use "mastering" and it has a good amount of headroom left after drums, base and groove. those livesets have very much interesting stuff going on in the background (Sun Control Species Live at Arvikafestivalen is one example, John Digweed - Fabric, London 120205 is another one). if we all agreed to lower the main level of our tracks as low as in 1995 we could definitly get better music out dare without sidechaining on the master.

I am forever learning about mixing/mastering and find myself asking questions that sometimes can't be answered. I am fascinated at the whole art and want to break the barriers of music. But I tend to find myself sticking to tutorials and common rules and well.... the more I follow the rules the better my music sounds :-)

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i like to try new things every time around.

most important THERE ARE NO RULES IN MIXING.

for example, I nearly don´t use effects like delay, reverb the like in aux busses, I use it as last insert in the row, so that I can automate it faster.

Though I must say when I got more and more experienced in mixing, especially of live bands, I just noticed more and more, that the room you have for alteratiions of your own taste is very very limited...

Same with Trance, a track has to have a decent punch, decent mid-highs etc. etc. to sound straightforward...

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Agenda 2009:

WinterWorld, Sporthalle Oberwerth, Koblenz
Trance Energy, Jaarbeurs Utrecht
Mayday, Westfalenhallen, Dortmund
Nature One, Pydna, Kastellaun / Hunsrück

I just tweak to what sounds good. I also put a highpass EQ on hats for example. I just do it all by ear mostly.

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Hahah. You can mix a kick drum and bass track 3 times louder than everything else in the song if you want. Crank it out with a PA and a couple of thousand watts behind it. When it breaks down everyone will be like 'man this is really quiet...turn it up...' and then the the bass drum will hit and everyone's ear drums will burst.

Good job. :thumbsup: