ba3bas .... experiment

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Mixing is about getting each element of your track to stand out so that the track as a whole will "sound" attractive and professional to your listener. There are no "exact EQ settings" for this. Every track will be different.

There are some general guidelines that go for dance music, though:

1. Loudness: [i] The kick and the bass will probably be the two loudest elements in your track. [ii] People can perceive sustained sounds very easily, so if you have a very sustained part of your track (like a pad, for example), it generally doesn't need to be that loud for people to notice it. [iii] If you have a high-frequency sound and a low-frequency sound playing at the exact same volume, people typically perceive the high-frequency one as being "louder" even though the levels are physically the same. This means that things like hi-hats probably shouldn't be too loud if you want the listening experience to be comfortable.

2. Clipping. Since you're dealing with dance music, your most frequent problems with clipping will probably happen in the frequency range down by your bass and kick. So if any element of your track will sound just fine without bass (like hi-hats, for example, or a high string / pad sound), then take the bass out of that sound using EQ. That will leave more room in the bass spectrum for other elements. Note that many sounds that don't "seem" bassy, like certain percussion samples, will often have a brief burst of bass during the attack phase. You can get rid of this with EQ.

3. Transients. A sound with a sudden, loud attack phase (beginning) is called a "transient." Transients are generally what will cause you the most problems with clipping. There are three basic ways of taming transients: [i] Setting a slower attack time on the synth sound that's causing the problem (or, for samples, dulling the attack phase by editing it manually in a wave utility). [ii] Using a compressor for automated softening of the attack phase. [iii] Simply decreasing the volume of the sound that's giving you trouble.

4. "Bright" sound. Bright sound comes from having your highs at an appropriate level, using enough high-frequency elements to tickle the ears of your listener, and making sure the elements of your track don't interfere with one another. At least that's how I think of it.

5. Panning. In getting a "pro-sounding" mix, I've found that it really helps to pan most of your percussion (the kick being an obvious exception). The general rule is that the harder you pan a sound, the more you should lower the volume, since (in my experience) hard-panned sounds can stick out really badly and annoy the listener if they're too loud.

6. Check your mix in mono. Lots of club PA systems use mono (not stereo) sound, so you need to make sure that any panned elements of your mix aren't canceling one another out when your track is played in mono.

7. Rest your ears. If you've been making music for a long time and listening to your tracks at high volumes, your ears gradually stop hearing high frequencies properly, so you may end up mixing your highs way too loud. To avoid this, take occasional breaks and try not to mix at high volumes for too long.

8. All general rules can have exceptions.

Last edited by MrJiveBoJingles on Feb-21-2008 at 14:21

quote:

Originally posted by DJ KaRiM NeT ba3bas .... experiment

LOOL

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Stooped Cat

quote:

Life is to short to listen to something else than Trance

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Mixing is about getting each element of your track to stand out so that the track as a whole will "sound" attractive and professional to your listener. There are no "exact EQ settings" for this. Every track will be different. There are some general guidelines that go for dance music, though: 1. Loudness: [i] The kick and the bass will probably be the two loudest elements in your track. [ii] People can perceive sustained sounds very easily, so if you have a very sustained part of your track (like a pad, for example), it generally doesn't need to be that loud for people to notice it. [iii] If you have a high-frequency sound and a low-frequency sound playing at the exact same volume, people typically perceive the high-frequency one as being "louder" even though the levels are physically the same. This means that things like hi-hats probably shouldn't be too loud if you want the listening experience to be comfortable. 2. Clipping. Since you're dealing with dance music, your most frequent problems with clipping will probably happen in the frequency range down by your bass and kick. So if any element of your track will sound just fine without bass (like hi-hats, for example, or a high string / pad sound), then take the bass out of that sound using EQ. That will leave more room in the bass spectrum for other elements. Note that many sounds that don't "seem" bassy, like certain percussion samples, will often have a brief burst of bass during the attack phase. You can get rid of this with EQ. 3. Transients. A sound with a sudden, loud attack phase (beginning) is called a "transient." Transients are generally what will cause you the most problems with clipping. There are three basic ways of taming transients: [i] Setting a slower attack time on the synth sound that's causing the problem (or, for samples, dulling the attack phase by editing it manually in a wave utility). [ii] Using a compressor for automated softening of the attack phase. [iii] Simply decreasing the volume of the sound that's giving you trouble. 4. "Bright" sound. Bright sound comes from having your highs at an appropriate level, using enough high-frequency elements to tickle the ears of your listener, and making sure the elements of your track don't interfere with one another. At least that's how I think of it. 5. Panning. In getting a "pro-sounding" mix, I've found that it really helps to pan most of your percussion (the kick being an obvious exception). The general rule is that the harder you pan a sound, the more you should lower the volume, since (in my experience) hard-panned sounds can stick out really badly and annoy the listener if they're too loud. 6. Resting your ears. If you've been making music for a long time and listening to your tracks at high volumes, your ears gradually stop hearing high frequencies properly, so you may end up mixing your highs way too loud. To avoid this, take occasional breaks and try not to mix at high volumes for too long. 7. All general rules can have exceptions.

Kool very nice reply

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Stooped Cat

quote:

Life is to short to listen to something else than Trance

the key is largely to do with what sounds you start with. the right warm yet powerful kickdrum will be almost perfect before doing any eqing. always sidechain your kick and bass. but set the comp up so its not running like a benassi production(unless you want that sound). now use or make the phattest bass sound you can to make the bassline. usually a nice sounding bass sound will not be too nice in the mid and highs. or sometimes a synth sound might have a wicked subbass you dont notice till you use cutoff and boost the volume a bit. play around and keep raising the volume of the bass untill it is just starting to drown the kick out. then back off the volume till you get the optimum mix of bass and kick. the key to the woofing driving bass is in the mix of the kick and bass volumes so try to get the optimum volume. a boost of 80hz to the bass synth will add a lot more warmth to the right sound, but will increace your headroom use by a lot. imo, a track with the extra warmth is worth being that little bit quieter in the mastering.

if you want your bass to also have a presence above the warm lows then you should make another layer to mirror the bass. maybe at a few octaves higher, or with a completely different synth. or maybe with the same synth sound, but with a high pass on it. then you can control the warmth of the track with the volume of one, while not affecting the presence of the mids and highs of the mirrored synth.

sparkle is usually associated with the 8000hz and above.

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quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles 5. Panning. In getting a "pro-sounding" mix, I've found that it really helps to pan most of your percussion (the kick being an obvious exception). The general rule is that the harder you pan a sound, the more you should lower the volume, since (in my experience) hard-panned sounds can stick out really badly and annoy the listener if they're too loud.

This is a good idea in general.
The first thing that you are going to encounter is phase cancellation and also addition when you have your percussion elements and also your vocal track being @12 or being a mono signal therfore they will be the first to encounter phase problems. Think about it.... when you put a pure sine wave 180 deg out of phase what happens....nothing!! But if you pan one left and the other right (hard panned) they both play, even though they are phase inverted.


A main vocal on the other hand is not touched so panning other elements that are not so important will prop give some space.

reason why hard panned stuff is not prominent in the mix is because really its not natural for us make it loud when listening to music. we humans want to listen to something important head on. thats why i guess vox and bass are untouched mainly.

but really props to Mr.Jive for your great info keep it coming dude

matt

Last edited by mzvirbulis on Feb-21-2008 at 10:53

quote:

Originally posted by mzvirbulis This is a good idea in general. The first thing that you are going to encounter is phase cancellation and also addition when you have your percussion elements and also your vocal track being @12 or being a mono signal therfore they will be the first to encounter phase problems. Think about it.... when you put a pure sine wave 180 deg out of phase what happens....nothing!! But if you pan one left and the other right (hard panned) they both play, even though they are phase inverted.

True, but you still ought to check your mix in mono, since lots of clubs still use mono sound and you don't want to have phase problems when people are playing out your tracks. I think I'll add this to my original post...

Panning on Percussion is essential to make the upper frequencies of the kick come thru...
But you must be careful, for example if you have two percussions that work together. sometimes, it can be great to pan those percs, sometimes, they have to be pannend together (both to a side, or a close panning in center, each element being, like about 15° outside (45° is hard panned)...

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"nee, de plaat heeft geen kras! dat hoort zo!!!"

Agenda 2009:

WinterWorld, Sporthalle Oberwerth, Koblenz
Trance Energy, Jaarbeurs Utrecht
Mayday, Westfalenhallen, Dortmund
Nature One, Pydna, Kastellaun / Hunsrück

quote:

Originally posted by richg101 always sidechain your kick and bass.

Always? Another option is to eq your bass and kick to compliment each other, yes?

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles The very good, informative post.

Thanks - great info.

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Originally posted by Ray_Chappell Always? Another option is to eq your bass and kick to compliment each other, yes?

always sidechain the kick and bass. no amount of eqing will allow for as efficient colaberation of a kick and bass. you can set the comp so the listener doesnt notice the sidechain effect.

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Sidechaining is a very effective way to get the kick and bass working together. As Rich said, it doesn't have to be an extreme effect, it can be quite subtle.

But yes, there are other options - get a high pass filter working in time with the kick and you're effectively sidechaining just the low frequencies that take up the same space as the kick, meaning a lot of the bass sound (the mids) is still coming through. That's another solution and even more subtle than the whole bass going up and down in volume.

Or arrange the kick and bass in such a way that they don't try to occupy the same space. You'll need to pay attention to the release/ decay of the bass sound, plus if there are any delays happening, where the delayed notes happen to fall. A bit trickier.

Sidechaining is quick, simple and effective. But there are other options to explore if you so desire.