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so·cial·ism
   /ˈsoʊʃəˌlɪzəm/ Show Spelled[soh-shuh-liz-uhm] Show IPA
–noun
1.
a theory or system of government that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

Thanks to a completely fiat, "elastic" currency, every household in the USA now owes the Federal Government in excess of $500,000! Why? So the government can have an infinite means of expansion. So that massive corporations and banks can who fuck up can receive bailouts instead of going out of business. So that the military industrial complex can profit off of endless wars which are also funded by fiat currency. So that Bush can have $300B printed to help Americans buy overpriced gas from oil companies. All this done at the cost of inflation that YOU also have to pay interest on. And guess who decides the interest rate? The Federal Reserve. What you earn, what you save, what you invest get confiscated and redistributed by the beneficiaries of this system. That is socialism.

conspiracy theories: history for losers.

^ don't you ever get tired of being so fucking omniscient and right about everything all the time?

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None of what I said was theory you fool. Why dont you bring some substance to the debate here instead of pretending like you actually know something about anything? Please educate me on what part of my statement has anything to do with theory.

You're full of shit. Obama is a governing centrist, not a socialist. Our monetary system shows hardly any signs of socialism. It shows a lack of knowledge of what socialism and communism represent as well as an ignorance of simple definitions. Obama will not set up a government agency to plan the economy. He will not as president, require businesses to meet targets for production. He will not outlaw profit. He will not put workers in charge of companies (unless it is negotiated between unions and management. It is not unheard of in this country and the practice may become more common in these perilous economic times.). Get the hell out of here with your Socialism bullshit.

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Originally posted by zDmn None of what I said was theory you fool. Why dont you bring some substance to the debate here instead of pretending like you actually know something about anything?

What have you brought? tHe FEderAl reSeRVe ArE SoCIAlistS!!! Yea, what substance...

When you don't know how the system works, it's easy to believe in the utterly ridiculous conspiracy theories you so easily have bought in to.

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Thanks to a completely fiat, "elastic" currency, every household in the USA now owes the Federal Government in excess of $500,000!

People owe taxes and that's it.

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So the government can have an infinite means of expansion.

Wrong, we have an elastic monetary system because money supply should be a function of the needs of the economy.

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So that massive corporations and banks can who fuck up can receive bailouts instead of going out of business.

I don't think you understand the concept of "too big to fail", do you?

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So that the military industrial complex can profit off of endless wars which are also funded by fiat currency.

We have a fiat currency so the military industrial complex can profit from wars funded by fiat currency!

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So that Bush can have $300B printed to help Americans buy overpriced gas from oil companies.

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All this done at the cost of inflation that YOU also have to pay interest on. And guess who decides the interest rate? The Federal Reserve.

Pay interest on inflation? Are you serious? They pay interest on their bonds. The Federal Reserve returns all profit back to the Treasury.

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What you earn, what you save, what you invest get confiscated and redistributed by the beneficiaries of this system.

How has your savings and investments been confiscated by the Federal Reserve? Don't say inflation either.

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That is socialism.

Oh god NOOOOOOOOOOOO! SOCIALISM!!113@@E@# GOD SAVE US!!!!

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Originally posted by ziptnf You're full of shit. Obama is a governing centrist, not a socialist. Our monetary system shows hardly any signs of socialism. It shows a lack of knowledge of what socialism and communism represent as well as an ignorance of simple definitions. Obama will not set up a government agency to plan the economy. He will not as president, require businesses to meet targets for production. He will not outlaw profit. He will not put workers in charge of companies (unless it is negotiated between unions and management. It is not unheard of in this country and the practice may become more common in these perilous economic times.). Get the hell out of here with your Socialism bullshit.

Hes done everything you just said in the first 8 months of his term you screw ball. Do you even know what inflation is? You think that the president is solely in control of this country's finances?

Do you know anything about CAFE standards? Do you understand what Cap and Trade will do to business? In the words of Obama himself

"My plan of cap and trade would cause energy prices to NECESSARILY sky rocket. Energy companies will be taxed, and they will pass the costs on to their consumers."

Here is a list of quotes from Obama's UN friends concerning cap and trade. http://www.infowars.com/enviroment-eugenics-quotes/

You are in pure denial if you refuse to think that Cap and Tax is not the regulation of production. The consumers are not just you and me, its small and large business alike who would then have to generate even more revenue just to clear any profit beyond the enormous new costs.

And maybe you just didnt notice, Obama fired not just CEO's but other exec's from the auto industry and replaced them with people of his own choosing. Sure maybe the Unions had some say so in who was picked. After all they did lay off %20 of their own workforce so they could afford to spend close to $200M getting Obama elected. When corporations are not only buying politicians but legislation itself, doesnt that strike you as fascism?

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Originally posted by zDmn Hes done everything you just said in the first 8 months of his term you screw ball. Do you even know what inflation is? You think that the president is solely in control of this country's finances?

Oh really? He outlawed profit? No wonder our economy is in trouble. When did I ever say that the president is in control of this country's finances? He sure as hell has a say in it, seeing as how all bills that are written are generally overseen and passed through him.

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And maybe you just didnt notice, Obama fired not just CEO's but other exec's from the auto industry and replaced them with people of his own choosing. Sure maybe the Unions had some say so in who was picked. After all they did lay off %20 of their own workforce so they could afford to spend close to $200M getting Obama elected. When corporations are not only buying politicians but legislation itself, doesnt that strike you as fascism?

Wait a second, are you UPSET that Obama replaced those scumbag auto industry executives? You even said yourself that the unions helped pick their new CEO's. Why in the hell wouldn't the executive branch of this country help out one of it's biggest earners for our shitty economy? Did you just want to let our auto industry go bankrupt? You're out of your mind!!!

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Originally posted by Comrade Stalin What have you brought? tHe FEderAl reSeRVe ArE SoCIAlistS!!! Yea, what substance...

When you don't know how the system works, it's easy to believe in the utterly ridiculous conspiracy theories you so easily have bought in to.

The more money is seen as printable paper, the less buying power(value) it has. The Federal Reserve was brought into power by propagating the need to combat inflation. Now the dollar is worth less than 4 pennies of its original value. That is FACT not conspiracy.

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People owe taxes and that's it.

Is this a joke? Yeah we owe taxes. What happens when thats not enough for people like Bush or Obama? According to Obama himself, the Treasury is empty. You're going to tell me that there is no such thing as inflation when trillions are printed and backed by nothing? You dont think that inflation devalues the the money in your pocket or the money in your bank account?

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Wrong, we have an elastic monetary system because money supply should be a function of the needs of the economy.

You're right!! We all need more money for the things we want. Now that money literally grows on trees, nobody even has to work anymore....

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I don't think you understand the concept of "too big to fail", do you?

Ok Mr.Economist, explain what happens if Freddie Mac and Goldman Sachs or AIG do fail. Tell me why Lehman Brothers despite being the largest investment firm in the USA WAS allowed to fail. In a free market system, corporations who fuck up or take too much risk FAIL. Or they go bankrupt because nobody wants to buy their stuff. Its that simple. In a socialist system, a bank who hands out mortgage loans to people who could not possibly afford them, gets propped up by bailouts that are paid for by people who are honest with their money like you and me. The entire term "Too Big to Fail" is pure fear mongering.

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We have a fiat currency so the military industrial complex can profit from wars funded by fiat currency!

Thats just one of the reasons. And it doesnt seem like you have much of an arguement for it either. The USA has been in a constant state of warfare and weaponization dating back to the very point that the Federal Reserve was brought into existence. A government that relied on savings would have been completely exhausted of the financial means to fight and build weapons by this point. I cant believe you dont realize that fiat currency provides the government with the means to fight endless wars instead of seeking diplomacy and peace.

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Pay interest on inflation? Are you serious? They pay interest on their bonds. The Federal Reserve returns all profit back to the Treasury.

You have to get it into your head that the Federal Reserve is a series of private banks. The Fed is not a branch of government. When they loan money to the government's treasury they charge interest.

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How has your savings and investments been confiscated by the Federal Reserve? Don't say inflation either.

I dont need to say inflation. You answered this question for me. I think I've explained this well enough already. You think I'm a conspiracy theorist. If I was a theorist I would be saying things like "This economic crisis was engineered!" All I'm saying is that GREED has brought us to this point. Is that so disagreeable?

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Oh god NOOOOOOOOOOOO! SOCIALISM!!113@@E@# GOD SAVE US!!!!

For the record, Obama already admitted to hand picking Marxist professors throughout college. He also advocated social justice when he put Sonya Soto-Mayor in the supreme court.

Plz excuse any of my spelling mistakes im trying to write all this on my cell phone.

Last edited by zDmn on Feb-19-2010 at 21:32

Fix your formatting and I'll respond.

quote:

Originally posted by ziptnf Oh really? He outlawed profit? No wonder our economy is in trouble. When did I ever say that the president is in control of this country's finances? He sure as hell has a say in it, seeing as how all bills that are written are generally overseen and passed through him. Wait a second, are you UPSET that Obama replaced those scumbag auto industry executives? You even said yourself that the unions helped pick their new CEO's. Why in the hell wouldn't the executive branch of this country help out one of it's biggest earners for our shitty economy? Did you just want to let our auto industry go bankrupt? You're out of your mind!!!

Slow down I did not say Obama was a communist. If Obama made profit illegal then he would be a Communist. I never said that.

You talk about scumbag auto execs and I agree but how can you fail to see the scumbags in government who are in bed with the same greedy people at the tops of some corporations? GM should be bankrupt out of existence by now. The people who dont want to buy their stuff in the first place are being taxed to prop up a corporation that should have failed. Is that not the re-distribution of capital? You dont think the government who now owns 70% of GM is controlling the means of production at GM?

BTW unions have also been failing in America for 30 years. In 1970 close to 40% of America was unionized. In 1999 5% of America was unionized. Today 80% of people refuse to work in a union environment. Union decision makers all advocate socialism because they are just as greedy as the execs at GM or even Enron for that matter. Here is what Cass Sunstein, leader of the SEIU said about unionization;

"If the power of persuasion does not work, we will use the persuasion of Power."

Cass Sunstein was appointed by Obama as a "Regulatory Czar". You have to understand that unions make money off of a socialized work place. Union environments are meritless. Workers are protected and even encouraged by the unions to work and produce less. Production needs can only then be achieved by hiring more workers to pay more dues to unions. If the company refuses, the workers go on strike and their jobs are protected by legislation that unions lobbied to buy 60 years ago. If you think this is good for employment rates, tell that to one of the millions who lost their positions are Chrysler.

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Originally posted by Comrade Stalin Fix your formatting and I'll respond.

you dont have a response trust me.