So I've noticed that in general, criticizing music these days is mostly frowned upon. Typical rebuttals seem to be anything from "you don't make music so you can't be critical of other people's work" to "just because you don't like it doesn't mean you can have a negative opinion about it".

But my question is, considering that music is essentially a product, and has a price, doesn't that entitle people, as consumers, to have any opinion they like? Does someone who defend an artist/release they like against critical remarks have a right to do so any more than the person making those remarks? Is it really reasonable for an artist to attack someone for being critical of their work? After all, they put it out there as a product, regardless of whether or not it's considered art or a labor of love or anything else. Aren't people (us), as consumers, entitled to express our opinions about music - regardless if it's positive or negative, without the fear of backlash or the need to defend ourselves?

Thoughts?

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quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Levels is...decent...damn better than a lot of the shite dominating the charts at the moment. It sounds absolutely nothing like...a billion and one similar tracks in this big-room style. I always had a soft spot.

People are pussies today. So many imitators and not enough innovators that everyone gets their panties in a bunch. Not having to invest a nickel into music production, distribution has led to a generation of self entitled know nothings, do nothings, yet they believe that they are better than anything else.

It started in the 80's when teachers started telling kids that they could be whatever they want so long as they tried...which is utter bullshit. The kids believed it, and later generations took the idea to the extreme. Generation attitude has little substance. The education system is to blame.

Everyone wants to be a star. Tell them that they can't and they act the wounded animal part.

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Freak Out Tóng Zhì

Not too sure who specifically you are referring to there but I see your point. Anyway I also wanted to add that I've realized lately that everyone has an opinion and it's just stupid to attack other people for their opinion. It's ok to challenge other people's opinion, for the sake of discussion, but to attack is pointless. This thought has mostly come about from seeing people criticize reviews on music and video game sites I visit. A reviewer is not an authority, so their review is really just one person's opinion. Everyone has one, just like an ass hole, as they say...

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quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Levels is...decent...damn better than a lot of the shite dominating the charts at the moment. It sounds absolutely nothing like...a billion and one similar tracks in this big-room style. I always had a soft spot.

This part:

quote:

Originally posted by Adam420 Aren't people (us), as consumers, entitled to express our opinions about music - regardless if it's positive or negative, without the fear of backlash or the need to defend ourselves?

is exactly the same as this part:

quote:

So I've noticed that in general, criticizing music these days is mostly frowned upon. Typical rebuttals seem to be anything from "you don't make music so you can't be critical of other people's work" to "just because you don't like it doesn't mean you can have a negative opinion about it".

The justification that you gave, music being a consumer product, produces both attitudes. Conversation is feared. What is allowable is idle chatter about what you like or don't like, but taking a position that challenges another is de facto taken as a violation of the right to consume freely.

It's not surprising that most brilliant aesthetic pushes by new talent are engendered by apathy. If you care only about what you produce or what you listen, stubbornness will give you the freedom to do so. But you'll never be able to talk about it beyond inanities.

Doesn't the notion of a community conflict with the notion of an industry if the ones making the product are part of that community?

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quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Levels is...decent...damn better than a lot of the shite dominating the charts at the moment. It sounds absolutely nothing like...a billion and one similar tracks in this big-room style. I always had a soft spot.

The internet generation means that everyone has a voice, compared to 20 years ago where a review would just be done by a journalist in a printed medium/radio/tv.

The internet/software generation also means that anyone can make something. Good or shit. Thousands of people creating (with a miniscule fraction being decent) vs millions of voices.

People need to take criticism with a grain of salt. Constructive criticism is a great tool for improvement. At the same time, many of these "voices" have little or no clue what they are complaining about and are just exercising the ability to shit on something/praise something.

Producers need to look hard at their work, and realize that one lazy flop will ruin them. They need to hold back, and wait until they are certain that they have achieved what they really intend of showing the world vs just putting out the first thing that they felt is done. Done =/= good. How many clipping tracks are there on Beatport? Ones that sound like they were made by someone with 2 weeks experience? Releasing a track these days is easier than finding a mate (hint:it isn't hard to find a woman).

This is a reason why I am a firm supporter of vinyl. While there are tons of horrible records, you have to respect someone who puts their money where their mouth is vs someone that hits render and creates a label that will get lost in the sea of shit.

I'm not referring to anyone in particular. I'm sick in bed, drinking heavily, and ranting because the world ends for me in 9 hours.

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Freak Out Tóng Zhì

It's irrelevant. Anyone who attacks the very act of criticism itself, rather than the content of that criticism, is is a cretinous fuckwad from the moment they open their mouth or bash their keyboard. There is no "right" or "entitlement" needed to criticise. The only validation a criticism needs is found in its own content.

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Your post is shit Jack!

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Freak Out Tóng Zhì

From Blackdown's interview with FaltyDL (http://blackdownsoundboy.blogspot.co.uk/search?q=mike):

quote:

F: Also, it should be noted that for me, making an album with Mike Paradinas can sometimes involve a lot of contact, and sometimes a simple 1 line response email "This is shit". That can be rough... although it does push me to make better music. That is where I think I lose it to be honest. I get pissed off at myself and at Mike. Ha. B: Wow, I'm pretty hands on at Keysound, in fact I've helped mix and arrange several recent releases, but I've never said 'this is shit'… wow. F: Haha, yeah he can be brutally honest in his opinion. I usually just call him and say "No it isn't." F: He says OK, why do you think so and sometimes it stays on the release. Tough love. Really. But there is love. I don't need there to be that from a label, but it is nice knowing how much Mike does care. In his own strange way.

If people dodge and dismiss constructive criticism the way you describe here, you are most likely talking to people who are more concerned with their business and marketing efforts than the music they are releasing. It is also likely that they never had to deal with criticism in their lives due to constantly being surrounded by yes men and rabid fanbases. If this is such a problem for you, I'd suggest not supporting them, and giving your time and money to someone who is actually interested in improving on the basis of the feedback he or she gets instead.

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"Wenn du dich zum Untergrund zählst, reicht es nicht, es nur zu sagen. Du musst auch viel graben, um es zu werden."

it is art when you are doing it for the joy.

it is a product when you are doing it for the cash - but only if you are compromising the music itself or your integrity...

i gotta ask myself, are ferry corsten and tiesto really enjoying themselves any more?

cause the cheap wooden gash that they are knocking out goes against what they used to stand for. music that energises the soul. their new material makes my spirit shudder in disappointment.

quote:

Originally posted by rubez ferry corsten and tiesto

shit post.

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Freak Out Tóng Zhì

If someone releases something, they should expect at least some negative reviews. I don't really get the whole point of the original post. If someone makes music for popularity or money and they make the most awful music of all time then sure, maybe they should stop making music.

If someone makes music for the simple act of creation and no one else likes it (and they're ok with that) then I don't really see the problem no matter what anyone else thinks of their music.

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