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White Label-Boot;leg
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| Havok1200 |
Anyone every did one of these? They're cool as hell! They're a bit illegal but hey they get you noticed! And I'm not talking about those mash-ups. I'm talking about taking an original piece of work and cutting it up and making it your own. So far I've heard Hopelessly Devoted/Olivia Newton-John, All Out of Love/Air Supply, and a few others. Who ever did these did a pretty good job of it.
Taking a classic "rock" song and give it a twist! Well if you want to try I got a site for you. And if you want a listen search Kazaa for "WHITE LABEL"
http://remixmag.com/ar/remix_white_label_lightning/
BTW I haven't done one but it's a lot of work! Just wondering If anyone did one and what they used... I'm still cutting up phrases. I just wish ReCycle could handle a big wave. |
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| Michael Russo |
| quote: | Originally posted by Havok1200
And if you want a listen search Kazaa for "WHITE LABEL"
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Or you could go to the record store... ;) |
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| Havok1200 |
Two Key words here..."White Label" & "Bootleg"
Go to the record store? C'mon dude these aren't done for money but for recognition. Besides they don't press vinyl anymore (except for DJs) and very few people are going to burn a bunch of CDs and sell them in a RECORD STORE.
I suggest you rethink your logic. Because if these were found in a record store. There are going to be some serious legal issues! I hope I enlightened you. |
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| TranceInMySoul |
Havoc, I see your point, but you're a bit wrong ;)
White label / bootleg vinyls appear all the time. Mainly these are the dancier side of the bootlegging world. If it's done for recognition (and I have no real reason to disagree with you on that) then someone's going to pay for (say) 500 copies to be pressed up on vinyl and distributed to DJs. As is always the way some copies make their way into record shops.
As for the legal side of things, record shops don't seem to get prosecuted for selling bootlegs. I don't know if this is because they are not legally responsible in this regard of whether it's not worth the copyright holder's time and effort. But the point here is that they are "white lables" i.e. there is no info on the artist (and therefore no obvious trace of who to prosecute...) |
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| Havok1200 |
| There are 2 differences in the states. A record shop considered like a Virgin Records or Tower Records, and a DJ Shop. Few people know about DJ Shops and everyone knows where a records store is. Sorry if it's confusing but stateside things run ass-backwards here. I know radio here is dominated by the LABELS. So hearing a white label here in NYC won't be done unless it's heard from a passing car or club. Not even the so called "Club DJs" that are employed by the radio stations on the weekend. |
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| D South |
| Almost every white label record I have seen has a copyright. If you see records with material that is not originally theirs most likely they have permission from the original artist to be used. The only times your most likely to see these bootlegs are in smaler clubs where the Djs have prepared them. I'll find out more from a buddy who owns a record shop. |
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| Michael Russo |
| quote: | Originally posted by Havok1200
Two Key words here..."White Label" & "Bootleg"
Go to the record store? C'mon dude these aren't done for money but for recognition. Besides they don't press vinyl anymore (except for DJs) and very few people are going to burn a bunch of CDs and sell them in a RECORD STORE.
I suggest you rethink your logic. Because if these were found in a record store. There are going to be some serious legal issues! I hope I enlightened you. |
I'm sorry, but you're the one that needs enlightening.
I know what a white label is.
I know what a bootleg is.
I know that some are legal.
I know that some are not.
I know that some illegal bootlegs end up in record shops.
I KNOW THAT THEY STILL PRESS VINYL.
Never, ever, tell me to think when you haven't done so in the first place.
Edit: I re-read the thread and realized I was waaaay too harsh on you, Havok. It seems that you've never been to a real record store (or dj shop?)... I suggest you check one out :) |
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| Anheuser |
I normally produce house, so sampling is a pretty common practice and I usually try to pick an obscure sample and do my best to hide it. Normally my samples are pretty short, so I chop them up with recycle and start playing and re-arranging the slices. I did one track that samples two songs. One sample is pretty easy to figure out and the other is more vague. Anyways, I know some guys that run a label and they want the track, but they doubt that they'll be able to clear the samples, so they're forced to go white label unless they want to risk it. Some labels risk pressing records with what they think are obscure samples because they don't expect to sell that many copies (2-3000).
There's certainly potential to make money off of a white label, it just depends on how good it is. I heard the Bushwacka remix of Billy Jean sold 10 000+ copies, which is huge for a house release. Obviously the track can never get as big as a legal release because it can't be licensed to compilations and other 3rd parties. Also, a label will get zero recognition for doing a white label release, so their only motivation is money and possibly helping build the reputation of one of their producers. As a producer, I would like to get recognition for the track, but it's a tough call if u decide to put your name on the record. I know someone who produced & pressed a Duran Duran white label and they used a producer alias to avoid any sort of hassles if someone decided to take legal action. I believe Bushwacka claimed that he had nothing to do with pressing the Billy Jean remix, but he didn't deny that he produced the track. He claimed that someone got a copy of his track and pressed it without his knowledge, so I think he's in the clear. |
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| Havok1200 |
Hey Mike I invite you to come to New York City.
Come see what I'm talking about. For a city that is the "center" of the world come see what I mean.
There's one place in the Bronx you can check out it's a DJ Shop and a Record Pool. There's a few places in Manhattan that you can check too that are DJ related as well. And one place in Brooklyn/Queens.
Come see a printing of a US version of a Bootleg and see the import version of a bootleg. Then go to a record store. In the record store you won't find crap except what the major labels are trying to push down your throat. I haven't found a single white label test pressing in one yet! I've found a "bootleg" mix CD at a mom & pop store.
I don't know how it is where you live but it's a corporate world here, and trying to make a "Bootleg" with any printed information about yourself can get you in trouble. The first time they tell you to cease & desist. After that your in violation of copyright.
I got one name who made something of himself when he went the route of bootleg...Jason Nevins. He cut up Run DMC's records and was able to get something out of nothing. And from what I know of the printing/pressing of vinyl. If it done at home usually on 500 are pressed. If done elsewhere it depends how much the person is willing to spend. Next after printing it goes thru a distributor. And this is where you win or lose. When it goes to the distributor it is up to them to go to the individual shop and say "I got this new track and blah-blah-blah!" The store owner will then say "Give me 'x' amount". And he does this so he doesn't have to waste valuable shelf space with something that won't sell. That's why we got the corporations who are holding these record stores in a stranglehold. So if the record that are pressed are not sold they get sent back to you. And the hard truth is you'll never get make money on just this. Plus from what you sell you got to pay everyone else before you pay yourself. You need to also perform and have either ASCAP or BMI collect your royalties. BUt since your work is not exactly 100% original and not condone by the record company or singer you get NOTHING!. That's why a lot of the up & coming producers go to DJs and give them a free copy of the track. With this method you can get feed back form the DJ as far as what they think if it would be good for their set and/or how the crowd reacts to the track.
So Mike, no one wins. In Italy, UK, Europe, etc. things are done differently because here in the states Dance isn't taken seriously. So if I offended anyone I'm sorry. But I'm serious come on down or over and see or hear this 3rd world country of dance music.
OH BTW I'm a DJ. |
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| Anheuser |
| I think this whole argument is based on ones interpretation of the word record store. I haven't been to NYC, but if it's anything like Toronto, than major record stores like HMV and Tower don't even carry vinyl let alone white labels. I remember seeing vinyl in the HMVs in europe, but I would assume that they wouldn't buy white labels either cuz the major labels would freak out, so you would have to go to the small Djshops aswell to get the white labels. When I hear the word record store in the context of djs and electronic music, I immediately think of small mom and pop stores that carry vinyl and cater to Djs or online vinyl stores, and as far as I can tell, they all seems to carry the occasional white label. |
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| Michael Russo |
| quote: | Originally posted by Havok1200
Besides they don't press vinyl anymore (except for DJs) and very few people are going to burn a bunch of CDs and sell them in a RECORD STORE. |
| quote: | Originally posted by Havok1200
And from what I know of the printing/pressing of vinyl. If it done at home usually on 500 are pressed. If done elsewhere it depends how much the person is willing to spend. |
You see, statements like the two above confuse me because I have no idea what you are trying to say. First you tell me bootlegs don't exist in record shops because they'd have to be burnt to cd and those won't sell, and then you tell me something conflicting.
The fact of the matter is that a ton of ILLEGAL bootlegs appear in record stores all the time. But who cares? The stores don't get in trouble. The producers don't get in trouble. All's usually well. The people running major labels aren't our brightest citizens, but they aren't so dumb that they'd be willing to go up in arms about a couple of hundred whitelabels floating around.
There's gotta be better record stores in New York... isn't satellite supposed to be good? What about Yoshi (or is that in Washington?) |
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| Havok1200 |
A) The company Vestax produces a vinyl cutter it's about 1000 dollars.
B) Those who want to press vinyl it costs a lot of money.
You can't find a record player anywhere in the states unless it's a MAJOR appliance center. And that's because CD are clearly the better audio media. No hiss, crackles, or pops. That's also why there's a big surge of dual CD players(DJ).
Ya folla'?
Besides the point here was to see if any one here did a mix? Not to debate this crap! Can this point be put to bed? Alright, then!
And Yoshi is in DC. |
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