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Harmonic (IN-KEY) mixing example: May '03 House Promo [DJ Yakov V] (pg. 3)
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| djrichy |
ok, seeing as tho this is a trance board, EON - Pocket Damage and Kid Vicious - Proceed are in the same key when played at the same bpm.
u study music 'nennon'? |
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| nennon |
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I think it's one semitone for every six percent change
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Yep, that's right.
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u study music 'nennon'?
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I'm actually a database admin in the daytime. I don't study music, although it would be nice if I had time. I'm still in college (I'm only 20), but my degree is probably going to be a BA in Computer Science.
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I suppose this wouldn't matter so much if all of the tracks you play are of a similar tempo, but i generaly play at around 135-136BPM, yet i like to play some chunky house records that may be just 130BPM and i'd have to pitch them up a fair bit.
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A 6% pitch change results in a full key change, so you would have to intentionally look for stuff that's OUT of key at default speed, but if you pitch it up 6% (128 > 136 or something), it would change key into what you need. Yes, it's complicated, but you can get the hang of it once you get used to the idea. |
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| dj_orpheus |
I'm still trying to understand this "in-key" method. This is how see it. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
- Play a record in a particular key set at the bpm you want
- Choose the next track that has the same (or harmonically compatible) key at the same bpm as track 1 when zero'ed
- Adjust pitch contol for track 2 but don't go outside range so as to change the key
- Mix tracks
- Repeat
What I'm trying to clarify (because I'm really interested in perfecting this) is do you choose track 2 so that it has the same (or harmonically compatible) key when zero'ed first and then beat match?
Sorry if this sounds confusing. |
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| Michael Russo |
| quote: | Originally posted by dj_orpheus
What I'm trying to clarify (because I'm really interested in perfecting this) is do you choose track 2 so that it has the same (or harmonically compatible) key when zero'ed first and then beat match?
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It depends on the bpm difference b/w the two songs... |
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| nennon |
Orpheus, you got it.. Pick the 2nd song based on the key, but make sure it falls within the BPM range. Then mix, rinse and repeat :) Simple enough.
The only thing you have to do is find the keys beforehand.. Once you do your homework, mixing in key becomes natural. |
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| montie |
| quote: | Originally posted by nennon
Orpheus, you got it.. Pick the 2nd song based on the key, but make sure it falls within the BPM range. Then mix, rinse and repeat :) Simple enough.
The only thing you have to do is find the keys beforehand.. Once you do your homework, mixing in key becomes natural. |
hey i really enjoyed your mix. if i were a club owner or promoter you'd get a spot after hearing that promo.
the mixing was wonderful. there were a couple of times where i think the end of the transitions were a bit abrupt, but this would be hardly noticable to the untrained ear. i was amazed by how well the songs really fit together during the transitions.
harmonic mixing is something i have really been going for in my mixing. I don't really know much about keys and the technicalities of music and music theory. but i always try to go through my records and find the ones that have a beat and synths that go together well.
you mentionend Sasha's GU 013 album earlier. the first CD is probably my favorite progressive trance/house CD of all time. the tracks flow so beutifuly in that compilation. i'm always amazed whenever i listen to it.
do you have any more mixs i can download? and also do you have any websites i can check out to get some more info on harmonic mixing?
thanks
good work
:D |
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| dj_orpheus |
| quote: | | Originally posted by nennon The only thing you have to do is find the keys beforehand.. Once you do your homework, mixing in key becomes natural. |
That's what I'm finding hard atm. Determining if it's a major or minor is also tricky. I have a guitar so it is somewhat easier to play the scales in the key you think it's in. Sometimes songs seem to have 2 keys!?
Is it all just using your ear or is there another method?
Once again, thanks for your help and info. |
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| nennon |
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hey i really enjoyed your mix. if i were a club owner or promoter you'd get a spot after hearing that promo.
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Thank you :) I'm glad you liked it. A friend of mine sent me an instant message yesterday, saying "You've got balls to post your mix on TA." While this place is less critical than the GU board, I wasn't expecting anyone to praise it. I think my mixing has a long way to go before it's great, but I'm learning. With posting my mix here, I have accomplished my goal of getting my music heard, but I also let people know about the possibility of mixing in key. It's a really great thing, if done right.. The more DJs do it, the better our scene will become. I don't expect the world to change overnight, but who's gonna become the next Sasha after Sasha himself retires? Someone has to carry the torch. Mixing in key and being flawless at mixing is a big requirement for that.
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do you have any more mixs i can download? and also do you have any websites i can check out to get some more info on harmonic mixing?
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Unfortunately, I don't have any other recent mixes. Here's a funny story.. The first ever "promo mix" I recorded landed me a weekly residence in one of Washington D.C.'s biggest nightclubs.. I never even touched club equipment before then, and went to playing 2-3 times a week right away. That first promo is still available on my website, but seriously -- I recorded it before even playing my very first club gig. I think my style, mixing and progression have changed a lot since then.
Right now, I play a very wide variety of music, although the majority of my collection is progressive house and breaks. Not the boring Progressive House, either, but the REALLY good stuff that makes people go nuts :) I can also play Hip-Hop if I have to, but I don't bother finding keys for that. There's no point, the mixing time is too short, and I don't want to become a full-time Hip-Hop DJ. I'd rather get famous in the House/Progressive genre.
Although I'll post another mix soon, here's another thing you can do to hear me. If you're in the Washington, D.C. area, come hear me play live :) The clubs where I play are pretty decent and upscale, and we have a large crowd of regulars who come to see us play every week. Between the 3-4 different clubs where I go, I'm sure you could find a place/night where you'd enjoy hearing me play.
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Harmonic websites?
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Unfortunately, there isn't much out there. http://www.djprince.net might have something (Just checked, it actually doesn't.. Not sure what happened to that website). Otherwise, you're on your own. It's easy enough, so just give it a try.
Another reply to follow.. |
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| nennon |
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That's what I'm finding hard atm. Determining if it's a major or minor is also tricky. I have a guitar so it is somewhat easier to play the scales in the key you think it's in. Sometimes songs seem to have 2 keys!?
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90% of music I have is in Minor scale. There are songs in Major scale, but there aren't many of them.. I also have several dozen songs in my collection that have two keys (popular effect called "Modulation" - the song alternates between two different keys), and worse yet, there are songs that CHANGE THEIR KEY half-way in..
Underworld - Dark and Long - Perfect example of a key change.. Goes from 3A to 5A on the Camelot chart, if I remember correctly. Stuff like that can be cool though.. You can jump around the Camelot dial while still mixing in-key :)
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Is it all just using your ear or is there another method?
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That's the only method. There are plug-ins for SoundForge that do it as part of something else (pitch-correction), but their quality sucks. They are very inaccurate and I rarely get the same results as doing it by ear. Do it yourself, and you won't blame anyone else if it sounds wrong :) I feel more confident keying with my own ears. |
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| dj_orpheus |
| quote: | | Originally posted by nennon I also have several dozen songs in my collection that have two keys (popular effect called "Modulation" - the song alternates between two different keys), |
I've found this too. I have a song that appears to be in both the Am and Dm key. This is handy because they are in perfect harmony with each other :D
I'm starting to get the hang of this but I'm afraid that if I go through and label all my records with their key and root bpm that I will lose my ear for selecting good tracks on the fly and end up solely relying on what I've writen down. :conf: |
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| fishfish |
tell me yakov, what element of the track should i follow while trying to figure out the key of a track???
i want to find the keys of my house records which doesn't have long melodies such as the Club trance genre or Hard Trance or anything melodic, you name it...
thanks |
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| nennon |
Sorry for the delayed response, I've been really busy the last three days.
Key the bassline if you can, if it's too hard, key the Piano/Synth sounds. Most songs will have them, even 99% of House and Techno. Granted, Trance is easier, but you can still find melody in even the most minimal tracks. |
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