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Mistrust & Misery in Iraq
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| occrider |
| Scary ... Bremer better get his ass in gear to set up the Iraqi police and military asap. |
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| Eugene |
That ain't gonna happen.
Keep in mind, months after the so-called "victory" there's still no government in Iraq. The streets are lawless. Nobody is in charge. Even the US soldiers with their bayonets aren't wielding a lot of power; they only create mistrust and hatred. Oh, and they get killed every day.
Basically we went in there at the whim of a politically inexperienced select few who wanted to undertake the "white man's burden," without a clear purpose, and in an extremely arrogant fashion. I guess Bush should have read up on history a little, to learn how the British occupation and creation of Iraq in the early 20th century ended in disaster.
This administration came to power ridiculing Clinton's "nation-building" and pledging it wouldn't get involved in the affairs of sovereign states. What the hell happened? (Even waay before 9/11 Bush started drawing up plans of overthrowing Saddam.) This is only one example of its ineptness, arrogance, and lack of experience. We should get the hell out and mind our own business... we're creating enemies and we are not omnipotent. Soon this unfinished and hapless war will directly affect every one of us.
I guess Rummy will come to realize he's not playing toy soldiers anymore, so fiery speeches and big ol' attitudes can now be shoved up his ass. Wow, he and his team are not the smartest strategists in the world, and force does not accomplish all - what a revelation to them.
:rolleyes:
With the situation deteriorating as it is now, who is to say that you or I or countless others won't be drafted to save the face? |
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| MisterOpus1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Eugene
This administration came to power ridiculing Clinton's "nation-building" and pledging it wouldn't get involved in the affairs of sovereign states. What the hell happened? (Even waay before 9/11 Bush started drawing up plans of overthrowing Saddam.) |
Your answer:
Project for the New American Century (PNAC)
http://www.crisispapers.org/Editorials/PNAC-Primer.htm
-above link is a progressive website (and therefore biased) , but gives a good detailed description of PNAC and it's cronies (who happen to be in charge of our country now.
http://newamericancentury.org |
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| occrider |
| Unfortunately the British nor the Americans cannot pull out now (well we could except it would be disastrous). The interim Iraqi government needs to be established with the backing of a healthy police force/army. Otherwise in the absence of government a power vacumn would ensue with civil strife and power grabs occurring all over the country. |
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| DrummeRaver86 |
| Come on, is anybody really surprised by this? The Iraqis have to completely start over. For some 30 odd years, all they knew was Saddam and his dictatorship. Now, all of a sudden, they have been liberated. I'll bet it's not exactly the easiest idea to grasp... |
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| DrUg_Tit0 |
| quote: | Originally posted by DrummeRaver86
Come on, is anybody really surprised by this? The Iraqis have to completely start over. For some 30 odd years, all they knew was Saddam and his dictatorship. Now, all of a sudden, they have been liberated. I'll bet it's not exactly the easiest idea to grasp... |
Especially since ordinary Iraqis used to live in relatively fair conditions under Saddam, and now are faced with anarchy and street gangs. |
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| DrummeRaver86 |
| quote: | Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0
Especially since ordinary Iraqis used to live in relatively fair conditions under Saddam, and now are faced with anarchy and street gangs. |
exactly. With the harsh rule of Saddam, there was some sort of order in there lives. Now, all they have is anarchy bvecause there is no ruling body in place. The situation is rather terrible. |
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| Eugene |
DrummeRaver86, I'll tell you a little secret: Most people don't care about the lofty ideas of "democracy," "representative government" etc.
All they care about is ORDER in their lives.
Can they buy groceries? Do children go to school? Is there water and electricity? Do they have jobs? Is there someone in control, who enforces order? |
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| DrummeRaver86 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Eugene
DrummeRaver86, I'll tell you a little secret: Most people don't care about the lofty ideas of "democracy," "representative government" etc.
All they care about is ORDER in their lives.
Can they buy groceries? Do children go to school? Is there water and electricity? Do they have jobs? Is there someone in control, who enforces order? |
I see what you're saying. So even under Saddam, the average Joe wasn't so upset because there was still order in his life. Yeah, well it's a sad situation, any way you look at it. |
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| Eugene |
A new article on low troop morale:
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/W...030707_csm.html
"'Rock Bottom'
Soldiers Stress Is Key Concern as the Army Ponders Whether to Send More Forces
By Ann Scott Tyson
W A S H I N G T O N, July 7 — U.S. troops facing extended deployments amid the danger, heat, and uncertainty of an Iraq occupation are suffering from low morale that has in some cases hit "rock bottom."
Even as President Bush speaks of a "massive and long-term" undertaking in rebuilding Iraq, that effort, as well as the high tempo of U.S. military operations around the globe, is taking its toll on individual troops.
Some frustrated troops stationed in Iraq are writing letters to representatives in Congress to request their units be repatriated. "Most soldiers would empty their bank accounts just for a plane ticket home," said one recent congressional letter written by an Army soldier now based in Iraq. The soldier requested anonymity.
In some units, there has been an increase in letters from the Red Cross stating soldiers are needed at home, as well as daily instances of female troops being sent home due to pregnancy.
"Make no mistake, the level of morale for most soldiers that I've seen has hit rock bottom," said another soldier, an officer from the Army's 3rd Infantry Division in Iraq.
Such open grumbling among troops comes as U.S. commanders reevaluate the size and composition of the U.S.-led coalition force needed to occupy Iraq. U.S. Central Command, which is leading the occupation, is expected by mid-July to send a proposal to Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld on how many and what kind of troops are required, as well as on the rotation of forces there.
For Soldiers, a Life on the Road
The rethink about troop levels comes as senior military leaders voice concern that multiple deployments around the world are already taxing the endurance of U.S. forces, the Army in particular. Some 370,000 soldiers are now deployed overseas from an Army active-duty, guard, and reserve force of just over 1 million people, according to Army figures.
Experts warn that long, frequent deployments could lead to a rash of departures from the military. "Hordes of active-duty troops and reservists may soon leave the service rather than subject themselves to a life continually on the road," writes Michael O'Hanlon, a military expert at the Brookings Institution here.
A major Army study is now under way to examine the impact of this high pace of operations on the mental health of soldiers and families. "The cumulative effect of these work hours and deployment and training are big issues, and soldiers are concerned about it," says Col. Charles Hoge, who is leading the survey of 5,000 to 10,000 soldiers for the Walter Reed Institute of Army Research.
Concern over stressed troops is not new. In the late 1990s, a shrinking of military manpower combined with a rise in overseas missions prompted Congress to call for sharp pay increases for troops deployed over a certain number of days.
"But then came September 11 and the operational tempo went off the charts" and the congressional plan was suspended, according to Ed Bruner, an expert on ground forces at the Congressional Research Service here.
Adding Manpower to the Region
Despite Pentagon statements before the war that the goal of U.S. forces was to "liberate, not occupy" Iraq, Rumsfeld warned last week that the war against terrorists in Iraq and elsewhere "will not be over any time soon."
Currently, there are some 230,000 U.S. troops serving in and around Iraq, including nearly 150,000 U.S. troops inside Iraq and 12,000 from Britain and other countries. According to the Pentagon, the number of foreign troops is expected to rise to 20,000 by September. Fresh foreign troops began flowing into Iraq this month, part of two multinational forces led by Poland and Britain. A third multinational force is also under consideration.
A crucial factor in determining troop levels are the daily attacks that have killed more than 30 U.S. and British servicemen in Iraq since Bush declared on May 1 that major combat operations had ended.
The unexpected degree of resistance led the Pentagon to increase U.S. ground troops in Iraq to mount a series of ongoing raids aimed at confiscating weapons and capturing opposition forces.
Tour of Duty With No End in Sight
As new U.S. troops flowed into Iraq, others already in the region for several months, such as the 20,000-strong 3rd Infantry Division were retained in Iraq.
"Faced with continued resistance, Department of Defense now plans to keep a larger force in Iraq than anticipated for a period of time," Maj. Gen. Buford Blount, commander of the 3rd Infantry Division, explained in a statement to families a month ago. "I appreciate the turmoil and stress that a continued deployment has caused," he added.
The open-ended deployments in Iraq are lowering morale among some ground troops, who say constantly shifting time tables are reducing confidence in their leadership. "The way we have been treated and the continuous lies told to our families back home has devastated us all," a soldier in Iraq wrote in a letter to Congress.
Security threats, heat, harsh living conditions, and, for some soldiers, waiting and boredom have gradually eroded spirits. An estimated 9,000 troops from the 3rd Infantry Division — most deployed for at least six months and some for more than a year — have been waiting for several weeks, without a mission, to return to the United States, officers say.
In one Army unit, an officer described the mentality of troops. "They vent to anyone who will listen. They write letters, they cry, they yell. Many of them walk around looking visibly tired and depressed … We feel like pawns in a game that we have no voice [in]." |
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