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Advice needed - Harmonic Mixing (pg. 2)
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| Camelot_Sound |
One major advantage of using a CD player with "Master Tempo"/"Key Adjust" circuits, or mixing software such as MixMeister, is that major variations in speed do not affect harmonic compatibility. An A-Minor song naturally at 135 BPM will easily mix with another A-Minor song naturally at 143 BPM. A 6% speed increase would normally raise the key from A-Minor to B-Flat Minor (A.K.A. A-Sharp Minor) without this pitch/key compensation.
I learned the hard way, though, that compensation built into CD players normally has greater side effects (distortion) than compensation included in mixing software. I found the worst distortion in outboard pitch adjustment hardware, since that hardware is not normally intended for full range pitch adjustment. It is usually used by studios to correct vocal or single instrument pitch variations. |
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| Xavier |
| in the last few hours, I tried harmonic mixing for the first time and...my oh my...its like a whole new dimension into the world of mixing. Once you hear a harmonic transition you'd think beat/phrase mixing is for the average dj. |
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| Dj Thy |
A guy from futureproducers is running a free database of harmonic content. http://www.harmonizer.co.uk/
It could be very useful. Once you registered you can enter your findings in the database so it's accessible for everyone.
BTW Nuclear, a 5.9% difference is a semitone, not a quartertone.
Harmonic mixing can indeed be very powerful. I'm still amazed some people say, I'll stick to beatmatching and phrase matching, it's more than enough... But if you're someone that always wants to push the limits further and further, I think harmonic mixing is a step you need to take. |
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| dJohn |
Hmmm...maybe this is where I'm lacking at. Beat/phrase matching should be a essential for every DJ, but harmonics takes it to another level.
Maybe somebody can give a demo with a recent compilation, like Nyana(which claims to have been mixed on turntables live by Tiesto)and determine the notes of the songs.
How do you know what note to mix into, or what pitch deleivers what note? I've been trying to get at this for a while now, but didn't know where to ask or how to ask.
Great thread. |
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| Ghostface |
ok, from what i can gather the only difficult thing is finding out what key the record is in. As once you've done that you can just use the numbering system on the overlay chart to make sure the mix is harmonic.
Now comes the stupid question.
Would someone like a piano teacher be able to key dance music tunes? Cause then anyone with only a few hundred records could get them all keyed within a matter of hours for prob only like 60-80 pounds....
:conf: :nervous: :conf: |
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| Camelot_Sound |
Re: "How do you know what note to mix into, or what pitch deleivers what note? I've been trying to get at this for a while now, but didn't know where to ask or how to ask."
The basic concept in harmonic mixing is that you mix songs that have compatible keys instead of trying to mix notes. A key is basically a pattern of related notes, centered around one basic note. Some keys work together better than other keys. You only need to be concerned with the keys of individual songs, and which keys are harmonically compatible.
Identifying compatible keys is as simple as telling time if you use the Easymix System, because you do not have to memorize compatible keys. Every key is assigned a number from 1 to 12, called a "keycode." To find harmonically compatible songs from any key, just find another song within one keycode of your outgoing song. For example, from keycode 7, you would select another song with a keycode between 6 and 8. (Each keycode actually has a suffix, such as "7A" or "7B" to indicate major or minor key, but you need not worry about that at this point.) The process is described in detail at http://www.harmonic-mixing.com.
The only other major concern is song speed because changing the speed of a song usually changes the key. If you use key controllers built in some software (such as MixMeister). CD players, and a recent Denon turntable, then speed differences may be ignored because the key controller will stabilize the key regardless of speed.
Re: "How do you know what note to mix into, or what pitch deleivers what note? I've been trying to get at this for a while now, but didn't know where to ask or how to ask."
There are at least four different ways to obtain key information:
(1) Use an uncontrolled website such as harmonizer (previously mentioned). Anyone may post key information here, so quality control is limited. Since it's free, you get what you pay for.
(2) Use key detection software built in DJ mixing software such as MixMeister. However, some songs are difficult for such software to reliably assess. You may download a free trial version of MixMeister 5, with key detection, at http://www.mixmeister.com.
(3) You may use an actual musician to key music. Depending on the skill of the musician, results may be more accurate than those from free websites or current software. There is often a steep learning curve for musicians, because much current music does not adhere to traditional music structure. Once again, you get what you pay for.
(4) Use a commercial harmonic mixing information service, such as that offered at harmonic-mixing.com, with a 46,000 record database. The downside is that it is a fee service, and there is always a lag between music release and keying. Some music will never be keyed. The upside is that music is keyed by a pianist/bassist with a Masters in music, who teaches at the Los Angeles Music Academy, and who has been keying music for over ten years. Accuracy is close to 99% (nobody is perfect).
Hope this helps! |
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| Camelot_Sound |
Here is a very thin slice of database information: songs at 140 BPM, all in the key of D-Minor. They should mix perfectly with each other:
IDOL, BILLY: HEROIN (DURGA DEATH)
ASTROSPIDER: RITMISTA (N-03)
VATH, SVEN: L'ESPERANZA (RAINDANCE MIX)
HARAJUKU: ON MY OWN (DH-9)
TWENTY-FOUR 7: KEEP ON TRYING (ET-4)
GEM: FEEL YOU TONIGHT
CAPTAIN G.Q.: ROCKIN' THROUGH THE NIGHT
Y.O.M.C.: GREAT FEELINGS (FEELING GREAT)
BBE: FLASH (RADIO EDIT)
WHITE LABEL (2): HOW MUCH IS THE FLESH?
HIGHLANDER, THE: DIGNIFIED (DJ A/M TOUGH MIX)
GIGOLO: AL PARADIS (MATT DAREY MIX)
AXEL: PARADISO (DIGITAL MONKEYS RMX)
KOOL & MIGHTY: VIVID VIBE
SUNPITCH: SUNPITCH (ORIGINAL MIX)
FAST: TRANSMISSION (ORIGINAL MIX)
FORD FEAT. ROBIN FOX: WONDERLAND (MOMENTS IN BREAKS)
RED: HEAVEN & EARTH
BEATFREAK: THE SOUND (THE KGBONGO MIX)
DERUYTER, YVES: BACK TO EARTH (RAVE MIX)
RED: HEAVEN & EARTH (DEJURE VOCAL)
DELERIUM F/LEIGH NASH: INNOCENTE (LOST WITNESS RMX)
BALEARIC BILL: DESTINATION SUNSHINE (12" ORIG
NAUSICA: CELTICA (MEDLEY)(HTXL5)
MISS MAGIC: OH YEAH!!
A-C-E: STAIRWAY TO HEAVEN
MADONNA: SKY FITS HEAVEN (SASHA REMIX)
M TIK: DON'T STOP ME NOW (DUB MIX)
VAN LINDEN, MARC: CLUBBIEMUS (EXT. MIX)
PARADISE: RISING SUN (FRANKIE P ACOUSTIC
LASGO: SOMETHING (EXT/PETER LUTS RMX)
FRANK T.R.A.X.: NEBUCHAN (O.R.G.A.N. MIX)
PLUG 'N' PLAY: TIME TO BOB (ORIGINAL CLUB MIX
ENEMY MINE: KNOW YOUR ENEMIES (KAZE PROJEC
COCO APTNESS: MIRACLE ANSWER (CATS FAVO
PPK: RESURRECTION
ALL STARS: IS THERE SOMETHING...(ALMIGHTY
BLANK & JONES: DJ CULTURE (NEW CLUB MIX)
VISIOR, ANDRE: SPEED UP (LUVSTRUCK)(GREY C. F
DJ PRINCE & JUSTIN K: GOT TO HAVE (JUSTIN K + DJ PRI
AURORA: DAY IT RAINED FOREVER (FLIP &
G., DARIO: HEAVEN IS CLOSER (DJ MYTHOS &
FLOORKILLER: DANCEFLOORKILLER (SHARAZ REMIX
DEMODE: NOW I'M FREE (ORIGINAL MIX)
CHEVARA: MYSTERY (DJ SPOKE MIX)
FLOORKILLER: DANCEFLOORKILLER (SHARAZ REMIX
DJ BASS - T: HERE COMES THAT SOUND (CLUB MI
DEE DEE: THE ONE (EXT/4CLUBBERS REMIX)
LOVE INC.: YOU'RE A SUPERSTAR (REZONANCE
LASGO: PRAY (PETER LUTS REMIX)
DJ SAMMY: UNBREAKABLE (ALBUM)
DJ SAMMY: VIVE EL PRESENTE (ALBUM)
DJ SAMMY: TAKE ME BACK TO HEAVEN (ALBUM) |
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| dJohn |
Hey Camelot, thanks so much for that. I know now what it is(even though I have yet to try it)
Can you give an example with a couple of songs that match each other? |
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| Ghostface |
have been trying out harmonic mixing lately and it's hard to believe people could not do it. Sounds amazing when done and there isn't much thought required.
Push - Journey of life
Neo and farina - binary refined
Plastic Boy - Silver bath
these songs when mixed together just sound like they were made for each other. Hold your mixes for 5-6 phrases without a single clash.
The only prob i have with camelot is that I don't see how I could get my money's worth. I only have about 200 records plus cds and am constantly buying new ones. So even if camelot had all my old records, my new records and the ones I'd want to play the most would be unkeyed for a while and then you only get one update a month. |
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| Camelot_Sound |
Yes, I agree that lead time is a major limitation for DJs who specialize in cutting edge music. For this reason I recommend everyone download the free MixMeister 5 trial version to key their new music. Although it may not be as accurate as our service, it is MUCH better than random programming. BTW: Although we only guarantee one update (100 songs) per month, we average 16 updates (3000 songs) per year.
For DJohn: Guess our posts "crossed in the mail," or perhaps I anticipated your request. |
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| Nemesis44 |
This is a great thread.
I must say I agree 100% with regards to the need for harmonic mixing.
I have been doing it for quite some time now and have found that it made my DJ experience more rewarding.
I have also found that it does a couple of things with regards to the dance floor. It makes it that much easier to sneak tunes in for starters. People like to be surprised and two well matched tunes can do just that with stealth.
I might have missed it earlier in the thread, in which case forgive me for repeating what's already been said. But you can also create energy by changing key. If you move up one step let's say from Fm to F#m you will create a burst of energy in the music. Admitedly this does throw the beauty of a perfect in key mix out of the window but can create good results in it's own right.
With regards to software that picks out the key for you... hmmm. I must admit that I feel a little wary of stuff like that. In my humble opinion, a little knowledge of music will only help your DJ skills. All you need to know is 12 different minor chords as you don't really tend to get much trance in major keys. Get to know a little music and understand the 'mechanics' of it. You never know what doors it may open for you...
Bottom line:
Music effects our emotions, so a good DJ plays on them by using different keys. Wonderful innit...
Cheers
Nemesis44:eyespop: |
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| dJohn |
Amazing topic. I learn something new everytime I come back to this thread.
I need an example or some kind of aural sample to know what harmonic mixing is about...can somebody try a small mix or like I said earlier, give a key by key description of a recent compilation? |
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