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Conversation i had recently with a TA over IM
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View this Thread in Original format
| Izzy |
[23:00] [email protected][/email]: what's up?
[23:00] Izzy: nadda much...
[23:01] [email protected]: how's it going?
[23:01] Izzy: going pretty well... just finished homework
have you found fruity loops yet?
[23:02] [email protected]: nah I never checked again since that time, I've been a bit 2 busy lately, I'll do it when I got more free itme
[23:02] [email protected]: time
[23:02] Izzy: its cool... i know how being busy is like... i hate school work
[23:02] [email protected]: by the way I was gonna ask u, do u know anything about Islam???
[23:03] Izzy: not much
[23:03] [email protected]: IN Israel I assume is predominantly Jews right??? But I mean where there still any mosques or Muslims there?
[23:04] Izzy: ya about 5 million jews and 1.5 million muslims
[23:04] Izzy: inside isreal
[23:04] [email protected]: :-O
[23:04] [email protected]: oh really
[23:04] Izzy: yup
[23:05] [email protected]: Well do u consider urself a religous or spiritual person?
[23:05] Izzy: nope :-/
[23:05] Izzy: secular is a better word
[23:05] [email protected]: Do u believe in God?
[23:06] Izzy: more agnostic... i dont belive in God, yet it cant be proved he doesnt exsist so im somewhere in the middle
[23:08] [email protected]: So what ur saying and correct me if am wrong, is that u don't believe in God due to the fact that u believe science has proved God to be false, but u still somewhat are open that some sort of higher being could still exist, am I right?????
[23:09] [email protected]: u still there?
[23:10] Izzy: ya basicly... i definitely dont belive in God as most people see it... everyone has their theory... but then agian there are things even science cant prove (like the fact that quantum physics is decided by random stats)
[23:10] Izzy: (sorry slow typer)
[23:10] Izzy: im probably better talking this out then writting it down
[23:10] [email protected]: okay I understand
[23:11] Izzy: how about you, are you religious? what faith?
[23:13] [email protected]: Well am juss asking u this cause am a Muslim and my belief in God is at a real high respect because of the numerous miraculous events which have happened in my life which proved to me that something higher truly ( and I believe) does exist, I used to be a roman Catholic, but reverted and I wouldn't say converted for good reason, cause I feel that Islam has proven to me the answers to all questions
[23:13] [email protected]: to the mistery of God and science to me
[23:14] Izzy: cool... im happy for you
[23:14] Izzy: i personally feel though that god doesnt have any direct affect on our daily lives... maybe more in the structuring of the laws of nature and the universe around us
[23:15] [email protected]: Am sorry am not trying to get preachy on u or nothing, it's juss that I feel it's only right to let anybody I talk to understand who they are talking 2
[23:15] Izzy: not at all, i enjoy talking about it
[23:15] Izzy: too bad we cant do this in person :-/
[23:17] [email protected]: Well I beg to differ on what u said about the effect God has on one's life, cause Islam teaches us that a Muslim first of all means " one who submits to God" and when u think about it there are a number of things which u and I do in our daily lives which we might not know at the time were doing it, but is a submission to God- for example
[23:18] Izzy: possibly... but submission to something more powerful then you is not always a wise move
[23:18] [email protected]: when u sleep, ur submitting, because the human body needs rest to regenerate the body to function for another day, or another period of time, and when u sleep in actuality ur body is in a state of submission, which is lying down, and Islam teaches us that those who are closer to the ground during prostration are closest to Allah
[23:19] [email protected]: It's not wise only when submitting to the wrong thing
[23:19] [email protected]: when u ur grass or hair grows it in a state of submission
[23:20] [email protected]: when the hairs on u private or chest grows it's in a state of submission
[23:20] [email protected]: when the leaves fall during fall season it's in a state of submission
[23:20] Izzy: not nessacirly instead of calling it submission, the Tao teaches that sleeping is letting nature take its course, nature = in and of itself
[23:21] [email protected]: and the nature of gravity, is yes once again a state of submission, why???? Because they all fall in prostration to the earth's surface, which is without a doubt, telling us that what goes up must come down, and nothing can go higher than God
[23:21] Izzy: ...its is the way nature works... i wouldnt call it submission if it is something you have no control over (face it, even if i wanted to never go to sleep, my body will fall asleep anyways)
[23:22] Izzy: gob is higher because some one has declared it as such. position such as being higher and lower is all relative.
[23:23] [email protected]: very true, but when ur body can bare the fact that it can't stay up nomore it has to SUBMIT to that very nature ur talking about and that is in fact the nature of subitting to what the creator has made it and everything else on this globe to do
[23:23] [email protected]: can't by the way
[23:23] [email protected]: when ur body can't
[23:23] Izzy: right hold on
[23:24] Izzy: you see that is why i may belive there is a god that has set up the workings of nature, but not that he actually has to power to change nature now
[23:26] [email protected]: Well infact he does, look at iceages for example, iceages has had the power in the course of time 2 change the earth's geographical surface, and spread continents away from eachother
[23:27] Izzy: no... that is because the orbit of the earth is not round and more oval, making every 10,000 years have a longer orbit and thus father away from the sun
[23:27] Izzy: (i learned about that in physics class in 8th grade)
[23:28] Izzy: check out the three definitions of Deism
[23:28] Izzy: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=deism
[23:28] [email protected]: I read a book which is called the Qu'ran and science, and actual scientists themselves have made research studies and proved themselves how what was written in the Qu'ran in relation to science has been medically and scientifically accurate
[23:30] [email protected]: and as a result of that research have became Muslims themselves
[23:32] Izzy: although i dont doubt that Qu'ran might be medically and scientifically accurate (lets not forget at the time, that arab world was the center for science and philosophy), it is the philisophical interpertations that i do not agree with
[23:32] [email protected]: like for example scientist have found to prove that the prophecy of the prophet Muhammed (pbuh) about the stages of birth in a woman's whom 1400 years ago to be accurate and they've only come to prove this to be right in the last 40 years now
[23:34] [email protected]: philosophical terms such as what exactly?
[23:34] Izzy: such as your interpeting nature as being submissive
[23:34] [email protected]: but it is
[23:34] Izzy: i wouldnt call it that
[23:35] [email protected]: okay but in a way u gotta admit that nature does have to submit the laws of nature right?
[23:35] Izzy: it is just the way it is wether we like it or not, we can not submit to something we didnt have power over in the first place (we never had the power to stay awake forever, so i wouldnt call sleeping submitting)
[23:36] Izzy: your question doesnt make logical sense
[23:38] [email protected]: what I mean is nature has to submit like leaves falling, and snow falling during winter, it doesn't have a choice, therefore when u don't have a choice or can't go against the grain to something, that is what submission means, and that's what nature does it submits
[23:40] Izzy: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=submission
submission = the act of yielding or surrendering power.... thus we can not submit if we never had the power in the first place, see my point?
[23:40] Izzy: flow is a better word
[23:40] [email protected]: man u hate that word submit huh?
[23:42] Izzy: submission is not a virtue i like in the muslim world, cause through my eyes i have seen how leaders in that part of the world have used it to create tryannical governments... Turkey and now afghanistan and Iraq are the only muslim counrties to have democracy, all the other muslim citizens submit to their all powerful leaders
[23:43] Izzy: it leads to even worse virtues such as manipulation, deciet and so forth
[23:43] Izzy: so ya i guess i do have a problem with the word submit :-p
[23:43] [email protected]: :)
[23:44] [email protected]: I can't disagree with u that the government's corrupt, but hey I guess will just have to agree to disagree on that word submit man
[23:44] Izzy: sure, man i really enjoy talking about this... cool to have you around
[23:45] [email protected]: anytime
[23:45] Izzy: well i gotta head to bed... 9am class tomorrow :-(
[23:46] [email protected]: cool man take cate
[23:46] [email][email protected]: care
[23:46] Izzy: c'ya around buddy
i hope he doesnt mind me posting this... i just thought maybe we all could continue the discusion in here |
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| DrummeRaver86 |
| interesting convo...it's nice to see other's opinions on such an in-depth topic.:) |
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| trancaholic |
| quote: | Originally posted by Izzy
... i just thought maybe we all could continue the discusion in here |
I agree with your definition of submitting Izzy, so what is left to discuss :) It was a very interesting read, though. |
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| prolikewhoa |
interesting topic.
i'd have to say i agree with your version of submission more than theirs...
and your idea of a god is a little similar to mine.
i think it's better to have ideas than beliefs, but that's just me. |
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