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lets see what mind-pollutionist cyusking has to say about this (pg. 4)
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View this Thread in Original format
| DJBARON |
| quote: | You're right, that is one of the reasons the whole world is getting pissed at America. So then I guess America shouldn't stick our "noses" into the issue where it doesn't belong. I suppose then that we should withdraw all our support for Israel and adopt a neutral stance? A stance whereby billions in lucrative military arms sales and financial aid should not go into Israel?
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there is a difference with diplomatic ties, national scale issues and personal issues.
if you want to have a discussion on any subject, start a thread with a quote, put it here, or simply PM me, and we can discuss anything in further detail.
I like to bring a wide area of ideas into a discussion to spice up the intellectual stimulation..
****IM LISTENING TO THE NEW MICHEL DE HEIJ SET @ MYSTERYLAND 2003 ITS AMAZING!!!!****
| quote: | i realy think you guys are unfair, and not serious,
so you read the first 2 lines of DJBarons first post, and started laughing at how stupid he is when he said something about cyrus king bla bla...
but what about the rest of his first post on this thread?
no one of you guys even tried to reply on it, and he said there some vary interesting things, showing how the media interprated the situatin here...and how it understands the ending of the HUDNA...
noone of you replied to this or cuase you
1)agreed with it
2)dont have a true answer to what he pointed, then again agreeing with it
3)having no intention of disscussing politics and debating the facts of the reality in the middle east, but just wanting to start a little flame war again, moving to a tottally different issue..
and i think its sad, cause this is a Political Discation and Debate section of the forum... |
bravo!!
This is what I see when I am reading posts and thinking what to write. That fact you mention is exactly why I say what I say. No one cares to argue any valid point!
Look at the honest reporting thread! Its always on the first page, and its huge!! and full of hard to believe things but are always backed up,
and what do these same people say??
.... ..... ,,,, , . . .. , ,. , ., . , duh.......,,., , ,.
so I'm going to watch bowling in colombine now
peaceeee |
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| Flotser |
| quote: | Originally posted by occrider
It's too bad he took the wrong approach to express his opinion which is why many here are automatically discounting everything he says. If CyrusKing came out with a post saying "Hey everybody don't listen to Zionist Nazi Melech_Mike" nobody would take him seriously either. |
this is a good point your giving here...
but still, popele could say his statemant about cyrus king was stupid
and then also comment the other stuff he wrote, but sadly, everybody chose to stick to the unimportant 2 lines and make this thread to what it is now, a 3 pages of bull...
:crazy: |
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| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJBARON
there is a difference with diplomatic ties, national scale issues and personal issues.
if you want to have a discussion on any subject, start a thread with a quote, put it here, or simply PM me, and we can discuss anything in further detail.
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You broadly defined the topic. If you would like to narrow down your opinion on how America should butt out of the world everywhere except Israel than do so. Otherwise I'm not sure what I'm arguing against.
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so I'm going to watch bowling in colombine now
peaceeee |
A fun movie, a terrible "documentary" :)
You and Cyrus King share the same taste in movies ;). I can't tell you how much I've argued with him with respects to that one. |
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| DrummeRaver86 |
| DJBARON is a confused indiviual. |
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| DJBARON |
| quote: | | You broadly defined the topic. If you would like to narrow down your opinion on how America should butt out of the world everywhere except Israel than do so. Otherwise I'm not sure what I'm arguing against. |
American policy as far as I know, is do whats best for America. America wants world stability so economically things run smoothly. The middle east is causing instability, and America is affected in-directly. At the same time, american interests domestically, like the arab population, and the jewish population, need to have their desires filled, otherwise this gov't won't be in power next term.
So American foreign policy will be affected by these two things.
America bombing Kosovo, getting involved here, getting involved there... I am not one to judge in this scenario, no matter what I think in general, I am smart enough to know that what america does needs to be looked at by a case to case basis. If you want me to sum up the idea of sticking in noses where they don't belong, I think domestic issues that really don't have anything to do with America, but cause economic problems, should be delt with through economic means, and not by using political means.
For instance, America doesn't know each side in the Israel conflict like Israel and the arabs know each other. Therefore who is America or this 'quartet' to make up plans? Will they be the ones losing children when consessions are made and more bombs are blown up?
what about when a defensive measure to prevent the loss of life happens, that does not affect america, should they have a say in the matter? No, but they do, because it affects them financially.
and when I was speaking about it, In particular I was referring ESPECIALLY to individuals. I am not going to get into the situation between India and Pakistan, because I know nothing of the cultures, and nothing of the people, or the history.
Even if someone considers themselves 'knowledgable' they are merely knowledgable of facts from a book, unless they have themselves been there and lived it. This is a universal thing, and unless someone has lived with both sides, and been there for a bomb, where blood from children is spilled and arabs jump at the victory, or where arabs are killed and jews jump from relief, it is for no one to judge except those affected.
How can you have a valid perspective from your cosy chair in Canada/america?
its silly.
| quote: | | DJBARON is a confused indiviual. |
I am confused? I have posted enough on this board to swallow you in arguments. You have failed to argue even one point of my arguement.
you stand in front of me, yet I don't even see you! your nothing without your personal attacks. Attack the arguments, but you can't, cause i'm right and your a little bitch who has NO VALID OPINION, because you CANNOT ARGUE A DIFFERENT OPINION, just agree with the cyrus-king
PLEASE REFRAIN FROM CATAGORIZING MY MENTAL STATE, AS YOURS HAS YET TO BE EXPRESSED. |
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| Mikado |
| yo baron what the name of your school? |
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| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJBARON
American policy as far as I know, is do whats best for America. America wants world stability so economically things run smoothly. The middle east is causing instability, and America is affected in-directly. At the same time, american interests domestically, like the arab population, and the jewish population, need to have their desires filled, otherwise this gov't won't be in power next term.
So American foreign policy will be affected by these two things.
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EVERY country is affected by regional strife in the middle east. And I assure you that EVERY country wants stability in the region. So of course America is going to strive to attain peace in the region. Even during the height of the Cold War the Soviet political branch wanted peace in the region despite the Soviet military machine encouraging Arab action.
| quote: |
America bombing Kosovo, getting involved here, getting involved there... I am not one to judge in this scenario, no matter what I think in general, I am smart enough to know that what america does needs to be looked at by a case to case basis. If you want me to sum up the idea of sticking in noses where they don't belong, I think domestic issues that really don't have anything to do with America, but cause economic problems, should be delt with through economic means, and not by using political means.
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:conf: What about Kosovo? Are you stipulating that we should have not have involved ourself in Serbia? Or are you saying we should have? I agree, domestic issues should be solved domestically ... hence the reason why they're called domestic issues. :conf: What are you talking about? Please provide specific arguments and examples to explain what you are trying to say because as of now you are being extremely vague. It's like me saying that Israel should adopt a more even-handed foreign policy and I leave it at that.
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For instance, America doesn't know each side in the Israel conflict like Israel and the arabs know each other. Therefore who is America or this 'quartet' to make up plans? Will they be the ones losing children when consessions are made and more bombs are blown up?
what about when a defensive measure to prevent the loss of life happens, that does not affect america, should they have a say in the matter? No, but they do, because it affects them financially.
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Ahh now something I can actually sink my teeth into. America's involvement with Israel has virtually nothing to do with us economically and virtually everything to do with us politically. You think the US is supporting Israel because it helps our economy? Well , I think it would help our economy a lot more if we unconditionally helped the Arab states and they as a result lowered oil prices. The fact of the matter is that America's support for Israel has a political world wide effect on our relations with other middle eastern countries, terrorists, and Europe. Therefore it is within America's best interests to involve ourselves in attempting to achieve peace in the region ... OR it is within our best interests to end our support of Israel. Which would you rather have? You can't accept our aid with one hand while you shove us out the door with the other and say that we should "butt out." It's real funny that Israel did not adopt this stance in the Sinai campaign of 1956 or in the war of 1973. So let's face it ... unless you want to be a hypocrite, you're saddled with UN and US intervention in the Middle East.
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and when I was speaking about it, In particular I was referring ESPECIALLY to individuals. I am not going to get into the situation between India and Pakistan, because I know nothing of the cultures, and nothing of the people, or the history.
Even if someone considers themselves 'knowledgable' they are merely knowledgable of facts from a book, unless they have themselves been there and lived it. This is a universal thing, and unless someone has lived with both sides, and been there for a bomb, where blood from children is spilled and arabs jump at the victory, or where arabs are killed and jews jump from relief, it is for no one to judge except those affected.
How can you have a valid perspective from your cosy chair in Canada/america?
its silly.
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:conf: actually I thought this was kind of silly. Essentially what you're saying is that we as individuals do not "live" the life you live everyday, are therefore uneducated about the issue (irrelevant of how much research or study we conduct on the issue), and therefore do not have valid opinions or judgements to make about the issue? That's the funniest thing I've heard all day. I suppose then that since you did not live through the war of 1948, 56, 67, or 73 you cannot make any kind of judgement about those conflicts, and you as a matter of fact have an invalid perspective of Israel's creation or right to exist since you're currentely living in your "cosy chair" of the present? Going along with your line of reason then, I suppose the rest of the world should not judge the Nazis for the holocaust since we never experienced first hand the culture, the peoples, the history, and we're not one of those who were affected. So we should have essentially "butted out" since we probably all have invalid perspectives.
I can understand what's going on in Israel and Palestine quite easily without experiencing it thank you very much. It doesn't take an astrophysicist to comprehend the fact that people are dying and are being terrorized. |
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| Cyrus King |
Nice post Occrider..i second that, you basicaly took the words out of my mouth.
Nevertheless, I think that Baron is overly self-righteous and beleives everything he WANTS. He fails to acknowledge the vagueness and arbitrary essence of his arguments. To be honest, i think he babbles most of the time.
But hey occ, remember, you are a "stupid american" sitting in your "cosy chair" so that means that you dont know anything. |
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| Yoepus |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cyrus King
But hey occ, remember, you are a "stupid american" sitting in your "cosy chair" so that means that you dont know anything. |
Ya thats true.
But that begs the question of, what if your a stupid american without a cozy chair, or a smart american sitting in a cozy chair.. do you still not know anything then?
:p |
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| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
Ya thats true.
But that begs the question of, what if your a stupid american without a cozy chair, or a smart american sitting in a cozy chair.. do you still not know anything then?
:p |
Or what if you're a stupid Israeli or a stupid Palestinian ... would they know more from their cozy chairs? What if their chairs were uncomfortable?
I wish my chair were in Israel or Palestine so I would know stuff :(
Do you think it would help if I sat on my couch (which is quite uncomfortable) and pointed it towards Israel/Palestine? |
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| Cyrus King |
| :stongue: :stongue: :stongue: :stongue: |
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| Mikado |
| quote: | Originally posted by occrider
Do you think it would help if I sat on my couch (which is quite uncomfortable) and pointed it towards Israel/Palestine? |
ONly if the planets are in alingment over the middle east. |
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