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Racism and fan control (esp. england)
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| TiestoFanMatt |
What is the point in banning fans for the macadonia game? I really dont see the point? what we going to do if we get to Portgal, ban them there as well?
I find it really stupid.
On another note...allot of countries are known for their racist chanting around the world, and England are the biggest nation to try and put a stamp on it.
I feel our nation is victimised, when it is apparent that nations such as Turkey are more violent and generally disturbing than we are. I am not dismissing England, we have proved to have a bunch of yobos, but it seems we are the only nation who tries realy hard to put a stop to this. |
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| czechstar00 |
Racism taunts will never be abolished. No matter how hard a country tries to seize the chants, nothing can be done im afraid.
The players are just going to have to be strong and try to block them out.
It's just to big of a problem to have under control. |
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| evil_bastard |
Of course we're being victimised. What gets me is, UEFA will exclude us if there's crowd trouble in the Turkey/England game in Istanbul in October, but they have not threatened Turkey with the same. If we beat them, basically all the Turkish fans have to do is cause trouble with our fans, we get kicked out and they win the group by default, meaning they'll probably qualify.
We have done far more than anyone to stamp out racism and we have achieved far more than anyone else. Yet noone recognises these efforts, and despite being among the best behaved supporters in Europe we are branded as the worst in the world, because we're English. them.
The stuff that goes on in Turkish stadiums, if that happened in Britain we would be banned from international football immediately, yet UEFA turn a blind eye to murderous violence in Turkey and instead punish the English because a few fans ran onto the pitch. It's not small punishments either, record fines, banning fans from games, possible warning expulsion from Euro 2004, even World Cup 2006. For what?
Dean Saunders who played for Galatasaray in Istanbul described their supporters:
| quote: |
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/internationals/england/2916831.stm
"You come down the tunnel and all you can see is red smoke everywhere and there are guns going off in the crowd.
"People take guns into the crowd and shoot them up into the air. It's really intimidating and when the other team comes out on the pitch the noise is deafening."
"I played there for a year and my son was born there. There is the odd idiot but in the main they are nice people.
"The ground is jam packed at 12 noon for a 7pm kick-off and the four sides of the ground sing to each other.
"When I was there I remember a game between Trabzonspor and Fenerbahce and two supporters committed suicide afterwards because they lost." |
How long can UEFA blame England for all this?! |
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| Xavier |
| quote: | Originally posted by evil_bastard
Of course we're being victimised. What gets me is, UEFA will exclude us if there's crowd trouble in the Turkey/England game in Istanbul in October, but they have not threatened Turkey with the same. If we beat them, basically all the Turkish fans have to do is cause trouble with our fans, we get kicked out and they win the group by default, meaning they'll probably qualify.
We have done far more than anyone to stamp out racism and we have achieved far more than anyone else. Yet noone recognises these efforts, and despite being among the best behaved supporters in Europe we are branded as the worst in the world, because we're English. them.
The stuff that goes on in Turkish stadiums, if that happened in Britain we would be banned from international football immediately, yet UEFA turn a blind eye to murderous violence in Turkey and instead punish the English because a few fans ran onto the pitch. It's not small punishments either, record fines, banning fans from games, possible warning expulsion from Euro 2004, even World Cup 2006. For what?
Dean Saunders who played for Galatasaray in Istanbul described their supporters:
How long can UEFA blame England for all this?! |
It seems UEFA couldnt give a toss abot violence/racism in domestic leagues.
What would be nice is that no England fans go to Istanbul but England win. The Turkish fans riot eg pitch invade...and then look at what punishment or warning UEFA give Turkey. |
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| RubiK Cube |
The English will always be branded as the worst because of what happened during the 70's and 80's. One of the biggest problems for the English is that alot of foreign hooligans want to fight the English as it is seen as a test.
Im not suprised that there wasn't trouble at the Macedonia game as most of the real hooligans will not have risked being arrested and thrown in jail etc meaning they would definately missed the Turkey game, and what they seen as the prize fight! |
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| evil_bastard |
Expect a massive security presence like the one in Skopje. Events over the past few years have sparked increasing tension between England and Turkey, to the English they are becoming the new Germany or Argentina.
Whatever the result against Lichtenstein, the game against Turkey is now guaranteed to be a cliffhanger. Whoever wins it goes through.
By the way, it turns out the Turks are planning to sell tickets direct to England fans, going against the English FA's decision to withold England's ticket allocation on security grounds:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/internationals/england/3087722.stm
I just hope this isn't a ploy by the Turks to get us kicked out, leaving them at the top of the group. Call me paranoid but I wouldn't put it past them. It's just a shame it has had to come to this. The English FA know that whether they withold tickets or not our fans will go so why don't they do their job and actually protect our fans instead of pre-emptively covering their arses? |
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| Ian^ |
| quote: | Originally posted by evil_bastard
Expect a massive security presence like the one in Skopje. Events over the past few years have sparked increasing tension between England and Turkey, to the English they are becoming the new Germany or Argentina.
Whatever the result against Lichtenstein, the game against Turkey is now guaranteed to be a cliffhanger. Whoever wins it goes through.
By the way, it turns out the Turks are planning to sell tickets direct to England fans, going against the English FA's decision to withold England's ticket allocation on security grounds:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foo...and/3087722.stm
I just hope this isn't a ploy by the Turks to get us kicked out, leaving them at the top of the group. Call me paranoid but I wouldn't put it past them. It's just a shame it has had to come to this. The English FA know that whether they withold tickets or not our fans will go so why don't they do their job and actually protect our fans instead of pre-emptively covering their arses? |
I know what you mean, it's obvious some fans WILL travel no matter what any of the players or manager or whatever say, it just will not happen how they want.
I do believe we are being victimised, the racist treatment of players was once again pathetic and they'll get a slap on the wrist at worst.
It's like the pakistani national team, the fans ALWAYS invade the pitch, so why don't they threaten them that if one of them goes on the pitch, the team lose by default, if they love their team so much they won't do it.
If UEFA do something about us though, i sense big problems |
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| Dj O'Callaghan |
| Its a pity in a way. That if England fans protect themselves England get booted out. I was quite hoping they would get some pay back for them Leeds fans who got stabbed ;) |
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| Xavier |
| quote: | "England boss Eriksson was criticised by the Turkish Football Federation president for warning fans their safety was in jeopardy if they defied advice and travelled to Istanbul for next month's match.
Ulusoy raked up memories of the Heysel Stadium disaster in 1985, when 39 Juventus fans died after crowd trouble in the build up to the European Cup final against Liverpool.
He is quoted in this morning's papers as saying: 'I think Eriksson has forgotten the Heysel disaster. Of course he doesn't want England fans in Turkey because he doesn't want them to see a defeat.
'Anyway, he will be sacked from the England job after the game because he will have no credibility left and he will only be fit to manage the national team of Patagonia.' " |
and in response UEFA said:
| quote: | Mike Lee, UEFA communications director, said: 'The comments attributed to the president of the Turkish Football Federation are to say the least unfortunate.
'The spirit of co-operation that was established at our meeting with the two FAs earlier in the summer has to be maintained in the build-up to this match.
'It's important that any public statements are calm and appropriate. There's a lot more at stake than simply a football match and everybody involved should act to ensure the best possible atmosphere for the game.'
He added: 'We will be contacting the Turkish FA president to seek an explanation and will ask both FAs to come together at UEFA's headquarters so that we can monitor progress and check that all of the preparations are in the right shape.'
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Judging by this, UEFA and the Turkish FA are quite clearly setting up a plot to ban England from Euro 2004. Whilst the English FA came up with the idea that English fans will be prevented travelling to away matches, the Turkish FA will sell match tickets to the English that dare to travel. And there is nothing UEFA is doing. All it takes is Turk to a start a fight, whilst an Englishman performs Self defence. |
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| Ian^ |
| quote: | Originally posted by Xavier
and in response UEFA said:
Judging by this, UEFA and the Turkish FA are quite clearly setting up a plot to ban England from Euro 2004. Whilst the English FA came up with the idea that English fans will be prevented travelling to away matches, the Turkish FA will sell match tickets to the English that dare to travel. And there is nothing UEFA is doing. All it takes is Turk to a start a fight, whilst an Englishman performs Self defence. |
tbf mate, if it did happen, there will be a lot of trouble this end |
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| evil_bastard |
The Turks are deliberately and shamelessly stirring . Everything they're saying is designed to wind England fans up so that they cause trouble and get kicked out.
For example, the President of their FA, who is in a position of resonsibility, has personally insulted our manager and for no reason other than to stir trouble he has brought up Heysel, a completely irrelevant disaster that occurred EIGHTEEN years ago. They have also once again changed their minds and decided that no English fans will be allowed into the stadium, talk about messing people around!
The President of their FA seems very optimistic of beating England, so does their defender Alpay who has also been stirring with the press. He said "we know that we are better than England and that we will win in Istanbul".
History doesn't agree. England and Turkey have met 9 times, and the aggregate score of those games is 39-0 to England. In other words Turkey have never scored a goal past England. In 9 games, England have won eight and the other was a goalless draw.
It makes you wonder, why are the Turks so confident of going through?
On another point, if the Turks can't guarantee the safety of visiting fans then they have no right to host international football. Sven Goran Eriksson warned that fans who go to Turkey risk injury or even death. If that is true then why the are Turkey allowed to stage such a game. This is the same Turkey who are trying to get into the EU - they must be ing joking! |
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| czechstar00 |
| quote: | | On another point, if the Turks can't guarantee the safety of visiting fans then they have no right to host international football. Sven Goran Eriksson warned that fans who go to Turkey risk injury or even death. If that is true then why the are Turkey allowed to stage such a game. This is the same Turkey who are trying to get into the EU - they must be ing joking! |
Damn word stealer you! :whip: :whip: :stongue: :stongue: |
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