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What's heroin like?? (pg. 7)
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| DaveSaenz |
| flalnig bkacdrwas |
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| UWM |
| quote: | Originally posted by MrSquirrel
I am just waiting for the thread in a couple days that says:
What do you guys think about PCP?
MrS |
Don't ever do PCP.
Ever ever ever!
I did it by mistake once, it was a terrible thing.
btw tiesto14 how old are you? |
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| DJ-Fuq |
| quote: | Originally posted by MrSquirrel
I am just waiting for the thread in a couple days that says:
What do you guys think about PCP?
MrS |
lol
Yeah its a bit of a ed up drug.
Wonder if there will ever be a datura thread :rolleyes: |
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| DaveSaenz |
| quote: | Originally posted by tiesto14
Really?....with that theory one could say make all drugs legal at cheap prices, better yet setup a drug-stamp program, similar to food-stamps, for the people who really can't afford it....GREAT IDEA!! I am sure with that implemented people would surely take safe doses and not become addicted....and of course there would be no crime since people from all walks of life could afford it...and to top it off the governments could profit (maybe even to the point of curing their national debts)....then we could setup after school programs where kids go to learn how to shoot up with accuracy....place it in gumball machines and have it sold at the local corner store....GREAT IDEA!!
:rolleyes:
How you find a nicotine addict and a heroin addict to be similar is BEYOND me.....
WHEN heroin WAS legal in the U.S. (even sold through Sears catalogs) people where killing, robbing and commiting countless other crimes to support their habits...and this is when heroin WAS LEGAL...now when was the last time you heard of a nicotine addict killing for a smoke?...you find one, just one, account where someone has either robbed or killed PURELY on the basis to attain nicotine...
Heroin is bad....plain and simple..unless use for medicinal purposes.
This is not to say i think nicotine is good...just that your theory is quite absurd....on the other hand i beleive that nicotine/smoking should be illegal...it is a horrific product that ONLY, in the end, kills you.....this coming from a 12 year smoker.... |
I can think of many examples of people robbing corner stores just for cigs. |
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| tiesto14 |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ-Fuq
No i wasnt insulting u i just misunderstood, read it too quick. |
:gsmile:
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ-Fuq
The deaths from alcohol and tobacco r because of how lethal the drugs r in themselves. Ur saying more heroin users would die even tho there would be hardly any overdoses? How exactly?. |
Well you and I both can not say whether or not there REALLY would be more over-doses....but i would imagine the more a dangerous product, such as heroin is, the more careless useage we would see....heroin, alcohol and nicotine have severe consequences to ones health...but to argue is their really would be more overdoses is pure conjecture...we really can't say.
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ-Fuq
Huh? What r u talking about? What im saying is that since u could get almost all drugs so cheaply, at least 10 times less than they cost now, there would be all profit for dealers and gangs, basically putting them out of business. |
I see your point.....but they would find other means to get money...making drugs legal would not stop gang crimes....it would just sprout new ones...
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ-Fuq
I wasnt just talking about america. But now that u mention it, maybe what ur saying has something to do with WHY wont make it legal, and feeding the public all the bull that they do.. |
Well of course that is one reason for them being illegal....however like i have said...heroin was legal in the early 20th century and the results where terrible....users lost their homes, spouces, jobs and livlihood (sp?)....
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ-Fuq
Thats not enough. When someones going to buy legal heroin, it would have to be supplied with enough clean needles for that amount of the drug... |
now they give as many needles as the user requests...but in the end it is up to the user to be safe...whether it is legal or not, the means to get clean needles is there now.
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ-Fuq
lol, u really havnt a clue about what ur talking about. I argue with prohibitionists like u every ing day and the majority of them dont even say things like this. What ur saying is, the high of heroin makes u want to kill or rob people?
Nicotine addicts dont have to commit crimes to pay for their addiction because of the PRICE. Tobacco here costs up to £110/kg. Do u know how much heroin costs? Up to £300,000/kg.
Heroin withdrawl doesnt kill, but alcohol withdrawl can.... |
not the high...but the need for the drug...again show me a case of a nicotine user commiting crimes to get it....i am a heavy smoker (almost 3 packs per day) and i can tell u that if the price was $300 i would just quit...as opose to someone on heroin who would more then likely do any means necessary to get it...this a fact....the body of a person with nicotine withdrawel symptoms can carry on alot easier then a heroin addict....heroin withdrawel symptoms are devastating....
Crack is very cheap to buy...yet everyday crack heads commit crimes to get it...so there goes your entire price theory....these types of drugs cause severe addiction not matched by nicotine....apples to oranges.
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ-Fuq
YES IT IS. Its FAR more addictive. Heroin can easily cost $300 a day, of course this differs depending on where u r. But even if it costs $100 a day, thats gonna cause crime. If it cost $5 a day like cigarettes, or even $15, that crime would disappear..... |
OK if nicotine is AS addictive as heroin...tell me why are there so many methodone clinics and exactley ZERO types of clinics for people who quit nicotine?...why is that an ex-heavy-heroin user needs to be on methodone for years, yet a nicotine user does not need intervention after a few weeks?
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ-Fuq
Do tobacco smokers have to go through their life savings to pay for it? NO. Its all about the ing price. |
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You are failing to understand that in the early 20th century HEROIN was CHEAP...no more expensive then aspirin....YET people still commited crimes to get it because it was so addictive...again it was CHEAP, AFFORDABLE, LOW IN COST....stop tlaking about price in that era...it was not a factor....with that in mind people still lost all their money through the years of buying mass quanities of it and eventually losing everything...even at a low cost...then resorted to crimes.
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ-Fuq
Uhhhh, Wtf? This is getting ridiculous. Jusat remember, nicotine is MORE addictive than heroin. Prohibiting it would cause chaos. |
Show me PROOF it is more addictive....one article, one source with credit and i will stand corrected. |
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| tiesto14 |
| quote: | Originally posted by UWM
Don't ever do PCP.
Ever ever ever!
I did it by mistake once, it was a terrible thing.
btw tiesto14 how old are you? |
i promised swamper i wont get into flame wars...so let it go...i wont comment on you and you dont on me... |
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| tiesto14 |
| quote: | Originally posted by DaveSaenz
I can think of many examples of people robbing corner stores just for cigs. |
where the robbing them PURELY out of withdrawel symptoms of drugs?...or as extra bonus AFTER robbing the store for money... |
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| DaveSaenz |
| quote: | Originally posted by tiesto14
where the robbing them PURELY out of withdrawel symptoms of drugs?...or as extra bonus AFTER robbing the store for money... |
cigs |
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| tiesto14 |
| quote: | Originally posted by DaveSaenz
cigs |
hhhmmm i doubt it...unless they were doing it for fun....nicotine does not have that affect on people to do act that way...have an article? |
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| DJ-Fuq |
| quote: | Originally posted by tiesto14
Well you and I both can not say whether or not there REALLY would be more over-doses....but i would imagine the more a dangerous product, such as heroin is, the more careless useage we would see....heroin, alcohol and nicotine have severe consequences to ones health...but to argue is their really would be more overdoses is pure conjecture...we really can't say. |
OF COURSE we can say there wouldnt be as many overdoses!! Why do u think overdoses happen in the first place? Its because people cant tell when they get purer than normal stuff, so they accidental;ly take too much.
Heroin is not medically dangerous, its just addictive.
| quote: | | I see your point.....but they would find other means to get money...making drugs legal would not stop gang crimes....it would just sprout new ones... |
Maybe some would, but its hitting them hard in the pocket. Drug dealing is one of the most profitable businesses in the world, if not the most.
| quote: | | Well of course that is one reason for them being illegal....however like i have said...heroin was legal in the early 20th century and the results where terrible....users lost their homes, spouces, jobs and livlihood (sp?).... |
But why?
| quote: | | now they give as many needles as the user requests...but in the end it is up to the user to be safe...whether it is legal or not, the means to get clean needles is there now. |
Its not as easy as it should be.
| quote: | | not the high...but the need for the drug...again show me a case of a nicotine user commiting crimes to get it |
They dont need to because they can afford it, usually. Of course ive seen kids who couldnt afford it stealing money off their parents or whatever, ive even done it myself when i was younger.
| quote: | | i am a heavy smoker (almost 3 packs per day) and i can tell u that if the price was $300 i would just quit |
Its not that easy. Anyway, maybe u would quit, but that doesnt mean everyone or even most people would.
| quote: | | as opose to someone on heroin who would more then likely do any means necessary to get it...this a fact |
How can u say this? U dont know what percentage of smokers would be addicted enough to carry on smoking by stealing compared to the percentage of heroin users that do. For all u know, as many people use heroin and then stop when the cost gets too much as would stop using nicotine when the cost got too much. Dont say somethings a fact without doing enough research to know it is, just because u think something SHOULD BE a fact doesnt mean it is.
| quote: | | the body of a person with nicotine withdrawel symptoms can carry on alot easier then a heroin addict....heroin withdrawel symptoms are devastating |
I know somebody who decribed his nicotine withdrawls as "screaming, crying and vomitng all at the same time". Believe it or not, nicotine withdrawls can be as intense as heroin withdrawls, and they last much longer.
| quote: | | Crack is very cheap to buy...yet everyday crack heads commit crimes to get it...so there goes your entire price theory....these types of drugs cause severe addiction not matched by nicotine....apples to oranges. |
Well, crack isnt one of the drugs ive studied in any great depth, so i cant answer this fully. Firstly, that doesnt make my price 'theory' (fact) disappear. Do u honestly think if a heroin addiction cost $5 a day people would need to steal to fund it? no. Why would they?
Secondly, crack is EXTREMELY different in nature to heroin. It can cause psycological problems for the user that might make them quit work or more likely to commit violent crimes/steal. Also the frequency of use is much higher than heroin so while a single dose may cost less than a singl dose of heroin, the frequency of use makes up for that.
| quote: | | OK if nicotine is AS addictive as heroin...tell me why are there so many methodone clinics and exactley ZERO types of clinics for people who quit nicotine?...why is that an ex-heavy-heroin user needs to be on methodone for years, |
There r no clinics because there doesnt need to be. Nicotine users can go to a shop and get their nicotine patches/gum because theyre freely available.
The reason people stay on methadone for years is....... Its around 3-4 times more addictive than heroin. The reason its prescribed in the first place is because it lasts much longer than heropin, up to 72 hours.
| quote: | | yet a nicotine user does not need intervention after a few weeks? |
Funny u should say this, as heroin addiction only lasts up to around 10 days.
| quote: | | You are failing to understand that in the early 20th century HEROIN was CHEAP...no more expensive then aspirin....YET people still commited crimes to get it because it was so addictive...again it was CHEAP, AFFORDABLE, LOW IN COST....stop tlaking about price in that era...it was not a factor....with that in mind people still lost all their money through the years of buying mass quanities of it and eventually losing everything...even at a low cost...then resorted to crimes. |
Really? Well, cigarettes r low cost and people buy them for years in mass quantities, yet dont manage to go through all their money. So ur saying, although heroin cost (assuming it cost the same as cigarettes) 60 times less than what it does now, people took enough to make up for that? Not possible. To take that much would be suicide.
Give me some links to this information.
| quote: | | Show me PROOF it is more addictive....one article, one source with credit and i will stand corrected. |
Sure. http://www.lycaeum.org/drugwar/hening.html
Or alternativly, if u want millions of links saying this:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...G=Google+Search
U have to remember that there is like 1mg of nicotine in a cigarette yet heroin users may take 20 times or even more that amount in a single dose, yet nicotine withdrawls are not only as severe, but last much longer.
U should try having more of an open mind, it sounds like u just automatically believe everything the us government says. |
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| tiesto14 |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ-Fuq
OF COURSE we can say there wouldnt be as many overdoses!! Why do u think overdoses happen in the first place? Its because people cant tell when they get purer than normal stuff, so they accidental;ly take too much.
Heroin is not medically dangerous, its just addictive.
Maybe some would, but its hitting them hard in the pocket. Drug dealing is one of the most profitable businesses in the world, if not the most.
But why?
Its not as easy as it should be.
They dont need to because they can afford it, usually. Of course ive seen kids who couldnt afford it stealing money off their parents or whatever, ive even done it myself when i was younger.
Its not that easy. Anyway, maybe u would quit, but that doesnt mean everyone or even most people would.
How can u say this? U dont know what percentage of smokers would be addicted enough to carry on smoking by stealing compared to the percentage of heroin users that do. For all u know, as many people use heroin and then stop when the cost gets too much as would stop using nicotine when the cost got too much. Dont say somethings a fact without doing enough research to know it is, just because u think something SHOULD BE a fact doesnt mean it is.
I know somebody who decribed his nicotine withdrawls as "screaming, crying and vomitng all at the same time". Believe it or not, nicotine withdrawls can be as intense as heroin withdrawls, and they last much longer.
Well, crack isnt one of the drugs ive studied in any great depth, so i cant answer this fully. Firstly, that doesnt make my price 'theory' (fact) disappear. Do u honestly think if a heroin addiction cost $5 a day people would need to steal to fund it? no. Why would they?
Secondly, crack is EXTREMELY different in nature to heroin. It can cause psycological problems for the user that might make them quit work or more likely to commit violent crimes/steal. Also the frequency of use is much higher than heroin so while a single dose may cost less than a singl dose of heroin, the frequency of use makes up for that.
There r no clinics because there doesnt need to be. Nicotine users can go to a shop and get their nicotine patches/gum because theyre freely available.
The reason people stay on methadone for years is....... Its around 3-4 times more addictive than heroin. The reason its prescribed in the first place is because it lasts much longer than heropin, up to 72 hours.
Funny u should say this, as heroin addiction only lasts up to around 10 days.
Really? Well, cigarettes r low cost and people buy them for years in mass quantities, yet dont manage to go through all their money. So ur saying, although heroin cost (assuming it cost the same as cigarettes) 60 times less than what it does now, people took enough to make up for that? Not possible. To take that much would be suicide.
Give me some links to this information.
Sure. http://www.lycaeum.org/drugwar/hening.html
Or alternativly, if u want millions of links saying this:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...G=Google+Search
U have to remember that there is like 1mg of nicotine in a cigarette yet heroin users may take 20 times or even more that amount in a single dose, yet nicotine withdrawls are not only as severe, but last much longer.
U should try having more of an open mind, it sounds like u just automatically believe everything the us government says. |
wrong i do not beleive everything the US government tells me...but apparantly thats how u perceive Americans...so i end this debate with a goodbye...i am tired of everyone bringing in the "you must listen to everything the US government tells u" card..implying i am naive, ignorant and/or less then you....so it was fun and i would love to respond to your last points but i simply can not be bothered with people who think it matters where on the world you live to have a strong opinion... |
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| moncster |
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