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| Yoepus |
| I agree; this is the solution to middle east peace. |
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| St_Andrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
I agree; this is the solution to middle east peace. |
So what do you (israel) do about it? :rolleyes: |
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| Izzy |
| quote: | Originally posted by St_Andrew
So what do you (israel) do about it? :rolleyes: |
There's nothing israel really can do about this. Most arab states have some sort of boycott on israel and wont even allow israelis onto their soil. But Israel does do something about it with those arab countries it has peace with.
There have been many joint ventures between Jordanians and Israelis. Israeli's have helped and taught the jordanians to harness the material wealth that the dead sea holds, Israeli's have taught them various agricultural techniques on farming the desert. Even raw trade between the two countries is substantially high (http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Dai...2003010811.html)
there is even a talk about a joint venture funded by the UN to create a canal from the red sea at eilat/aqaba to the dead sea to offset it's diminishing water level.
Egypt is one of the few countries that allows israeli tourists, which help out that industry by opening a greater market.(http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Dai...2003072823.html)
In 1993, Israel signed a Free Trade agreement with the PLO (though i dont know if that's in effect now). Morocco, which has established diplomatic relations with Israel, has increased its importation of Israeli made agricultural related products such as agro-chemicals and irrigation equipment. (http://www.infoprod.co.il/country/israel2f.htm)
Though the article that hansolo posted is a report of self-reflection. It is critical of what arab countries must do to better themselves, not on how other countries around can help them. |
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| St_Andrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by Izzy
There's nothing israel really can do about this. Most arab states have some sort of boycott on israel and wont even allow israelis onto their soil. But Israel does do something about it with those arab countries it has peace with. |
My point is that actually can do something about it! And yes i agree this is the only way to solve the middle east conflict. Invest your money in Palestine. Sounds weird, but think about it, if palestine would be a decent country to live in with pretty well educated people, suicide bombers shouldn't really be a problem... |
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| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by St_Andrew
My point is that actually can do something about it! And yes i agree this is the only way to solve the middle east conflict. Invest your money in Palestine. Sounds weird, but think about it, if palestine would be a decent country to live in with pretty well educated people, suicide bombers shouldn't really be a problem... |
Except for the massive PLO corruption that would steal the money from the people and key objectives of Hamas such as the right of return, the destruction of Israel, etc. :) |
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| St_Andrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by occrider
Except for the massive PLO corruption that would steal the money from the people and key objectives of Hamas such as the right of return, the destruction of Israel, etc. :) |
Of course as it is today you cannot give the money to them in their hands. You have to make concreate things of the money, like schools roads etc... Not an easy solution, nor a perfect one. But still i think that's the way to go! Or do you think it's better to go on forever as it is today, bombing back and forth...? |
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| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by St_Andrew
Of course as it is today you cannot give the money to them in their hands. You have to make concreate things of the money, like schools roads etc... Not an easy solution, nor a perfect one. But still i think that's the way to go! Or do you think it's better to go on forever as it is today, bombing back and forth...? |
Much like the thought of a utopian world without lawyers horrified Lionel Hutch, I can't bear to think of a peaceful middleast. :)
But at any rate, I don't think your plan will work because israel is having financial troubles as it is. And it's not like they would invest in Palestine without any assurances that terrorism would stop. If they spend billions and the terrorism continued they would come away from the deal as the biggest suckers on the planet. Any deal in that region is going to have to be tit for tat. |
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| Yoepus |
| quote: | Originally posted by St_Andrew
My point is that actually can do something about it! And yes i agree this is the only way to solve the middle east conflict. Invest your money in Palestine. Sounds weird, but think about it, if palestine would be a decent country to live in with pretty well educated people, suicide bombers shouldn't really be a problem... |
Why would Israel invest in the Palestinians if the Palestinians don't invest in the Palestinians???
Again you fail to see the point that Izzy and these Arab scholars make. It does not matter how much Israel will invest in Palestine, or other countries invest elsehwere in Arabia. This would not do anything to these countries - the West invest billions currently in Arabia, has this brought peace??
What matters is when the Palestinians will invest in themselves, when other arab countries invest in themselves. Thats the issue.
Peace will only come when the Arabs learn to invest in themselves.
You could give them a $1,000,000 school, but if they don't invest in themselves, they will use this school as a Mosque, or an arms depots say... |
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| St_Andrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
Why would Israel invest in the Palestinians if the Palestinians don't invest in the Palestinians??? |
Palestinians certainly doesn't have the money for that.
| quote: | | Again you fail to see the point that Izzy and these Arab scholars make. It does not matter how much Israel will invest in Palestine, or other countries invest elsehwere in Arabia. This would not do anything to these countries - the West invest billions currently in Arabia, has this brought peace?? |
as far as i know there is no war going on between the highly developed countries (which is the countries west invest in) such as Saudi arabia and the western world.
| quote: | | What matters is when the Palestinians will invest in themselves, when other arab countries invest in themselves. Thats the issue. |
All countries can't invest in theirself (Of course they can but maybe not as much as is needed). Some arab countries can, but don't do it, but that is not the case in Palestine.
| quote: | | Peace will only come when the Arabs learn to invest in themselves. |
With some help :p
and besides i don't think they will get the message before they go to school and get well educated.
| quote: | | You could give them a $1,000,000 school, but if they don't invest in themselves, they will use this school as a Mosque, or an arms depots say... |
If they got a $1,000,000 school sure they would go to school, otherwise, nuke 'em...
| quote: | Originally posted by Occrider
But at any rate, I don't think your plan will work because israel is having financial troubles as it is. And it's not like they would invest in Palestine without any assurances that terrorism would stop. If they spend billions and the terrorism continued they would come away from the deal as the biggest suckers on the planet. Any deal in that region is going to have to be tit for tat. |
That is a valid point. Perhaps the US / EU should raise their Palestinian funding/investments... |
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| Yoepus |
| quote: | Originally posted by St_Andrew
Palestinians certainly doesn't have the money for that.
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No, they had the money - right now most if it is sitting in Swiss bank accounts or going to fund terrorism - not the Palestinians.
Europe and the USA gave probably billions to the Palestinians in the dreamscape after the Oslo accords were signed, where did this money go?
Its the same with the rest of Arabia;
Yes the West has invested in other Arab countries; such as Saudia Arabia. But Saudia Arabia has not invested in itself --- its still state sponsorer of terrorism... how many leading universities has the oil money built? how about roads, infastructure, easing bureaucratic and economic restrictions, schools, water, roads??
Right now the West invests in oil, it does not invest in Arab countries, they have nothing to invest in. Once the Arabs invest in themselves (and they have TONS of money.. although most is in some private off-shore account) build themselves school, educated themselves, build roads, provide water, services, and infrastructure then they will start producing and trading, and people will invest in them.
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as far as i know there is no war going on between the highly developed countries (which is the countries west invest in) such as Saudi arabia and the western world. |
Aside from that war on terrorism of course. Sure the Arabs don't fight within themselves openly very often, but this has I think actually been detrimental to their culture; more disent, more debate, more opposing views, had their been tolerance for this would perpetuate the Arabs closer to the rest of the third-world.
| quote: | | All countries can't invest in theirself (Of course they can but maybe not as much as is needed). Some arab countries can, but don't do it, but that is not the case in Palestine. |
OK you don't get it, don't think when I say "investment" only money. Heres another analogy, you didn't seem to get the $1,000,000 schoo one. You've heard this one right? "Fish for a man, he'll eat for a day, teach a man to fish he'll eat for a lifetime".
Well right now the west has tried to teach the Arab's to fish. In fact the Arabs know how to fish. But they refuse to invest in themsleves; they won't fish!! Even if they know how, they won't fish. They need to invest in themselves first; have the will to eat, have the will to fish, before any real gains can come of this.
All you have so far, is a waste of a perfectly good overpriced learn how to fish consultant, teaching a people who don't want to know how to fish to fish. It won't happen, once the Arabs want to fish this can happen... this is what I mean; the Arabs must invest in themselves first. This is what the article of the Arab scholars refers to (read it if you haven't), this is the only way for Arabia to change and to be a stable part of the world.
Right now Arab mentality is that they don't want to fish, they don't want to learn, but they want you to fish for them for a lifetime... this can't happen, and this creates the instablity. |
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| ahlamalek |
I may sound far fetched (its 1:45am after all). But having a perpetual conflict with a nation who has WMDs (israel) cannot help Arab countries.
In other words, when you spend all of your money into arms so you can have something even remotely resembling an army (compared to one of the most advanced army on earth, with the help of US tax payers money), you don't have anything left for education and R&D. |
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