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Recording levels on computer
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| DJ Joshua H |
Hi all,
I have a vestax pcv-275 mixer just got Cool Edit Pro 2.0 so I can record.
I am using the 1/4" master output jacks from the mixer and going in to the 'line in' on the soundcard. The soundcard isn't anything fancy, just what came standard with the dell I bought a year ago.
I know that you want the recording level monitor in cool edit to peak at around 0 dB as to avoid clipping. I can adjust the volume of the 'line in' using the windows mixer (the little speaker in the lower right of the screen next to the clock).
The problem here is that in order for the recording level monitor in cool edit to peak at 0 dB without clipping, I need to turn the windows mixer volume level almost all the way down.
On the vestax, I have both the pre-fader levels and the master output levels peaking at about 0 dB. I'm under the assumption that this is the right way to go about EQing because you are sending the largest signal to the speakers or amp with out distortion. Is this correct?
What I'm concerned about is that because the 'line in' volume is turned all the way down that my recordings won't sound as good as they would if it was turned up higher (say to 70-80% like the up faders on the vestax)
I read somewhere that this may be because of the fact that the 1/4" jack is a "high level output" meant for speakers not soundcards. Is this correct? Any help or advice would be much appreciated. thanks |
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| TranceInMySoul |
Right, firstly lets clear up any confusion over nominal operating levels. What you read about high output levels is on the right lines - there are two different nominal operating levels most (or all) equipment you own will use. These are referred to as "consumer" and "professional", and are quoted as -10dBV and +4dBu respectively. Due to the fact they are quoted as dBV and dBu the actual difference between the two is about 11.8dB.
As an aside, I'll remind everyone that an difference of 10dB is generally perceived as being twice or half as loud.
If you plug a "consumer" level product into a "professional" level product that has vu meters, the meters will get up to about -11dB (as stated above). However, as you probably have guessed already, doing it the other way round will overload the "consumer" level input. This appears to be the problem you're having.
Without a better soundcard that can accept "professional" level input (e.g. most M-Audio soundcards) you simply need to switch to using the PCV-275's main RCA phono outputs, that operate at the "consumer" level, rather than the 1/4" jack outputs. |
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| DJ Joshua H |
Thanks for your advice, I found out a little more about my sound card. It's "SoundMax Digital Audio" and I think it may be "integrated". What does this mean exactly? Is this not a full sound card that you would buy seperatly?
What sound card would you recommend I buy if I'm recording my own mixes for around $200 USD. Right now, I'm would just be using one input from the mixer but I would like the sound card to be able to handle more components in the future such as synths, effects processers etc.
Also where can I learn more about this pro audio stuff? I've found a few websites but not many |
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| TranceInMySoul |
An integrated soundcard is basically where the sound chip is a part of the mainboard (motherboard) of your computer rather than being a part of a separate PCI / ISA sound card. You should be able to disable it in your BIOS if you want to (alternatively you might have to change some jumper settings on the mainboard).
There's been plenty of other threads about sound card advice, so do a search, but M-Audio soundcards are often recommended. |
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| DJ Tequila |
I'd like to clear up a misapprehension that people have about recording levels. You don't want to go anywhere NEAR 0dB when recording. Set up your system to produce the loudest noise you think you'll hear, and set that to record at between -7 and -4dBFS. (dBFS = dB Full Scale, your digital measuring system).
The theory here is that an analogue system had a headroom made up of the non-linearity of the recording/amplifying process over certain recotrding levels. (This is the source of your classic 'overdrive' distortion - loud signals are gently flattened by transistors, tape and valves. Louder signals are squashed. The wave-form is rounded and complexity is added).
A digital system has no headroom, meaning loud signals are clipped. This gives instant square wave distortion with no happy medium. So while analogue distortion sounds pleasant and is actually strived for in some situations, digital clipping sounds BAD. Have a play, you'll see what I mean.
So, when recording onto a digital medium give yourself some headroom. You're not going to lose quality with a 16 bit recording medium.
I would advise you get a good sound card though. I can recommend the M-Audio Delta 4/4, which is nice 'n cheap, and gives you the option of recording at consumer, semi-pro and pro line levels. They're balanced inputs and outputs too, which means your signal shouldn't suffer any interference between your mixer and your PC. (If your mixer gives balanced outs).
On-board sound cards generally suffer from noise issues as they are not shielded well from the high-bandwidth data lines and mains voltages flying around in the PC case.
T* |
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| hey cheggy |
| Before you go and look at getting a different sound card, be careful. You need to check that the sond card in your comuter is upgradable. I bought a gateway desktop ages ago. I bought an audiophile to put in it, but it didn't fit. If you have a dell desktop (one of the smaller looking computers), then chances are it won't fit. I had to buy a new computer to house my sound card. |
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| DJ Tequila |
If you want to know about audio technology and get a studio together, start reading Sound On Sound and Future Music. It would be a good idea to go on a course, too - find one on music technology or studio engineering.
There are some remarkably cheap ones (and you can find them in the previously mentioned mags), but be warned - take everything you're told with a pinch of salt. Get the books the course is based on, read up, make your own opinions. A hell of a lot of what you hear is opinion, and a lot of great engineers have very hazy or just plain wrong opinions on certain aspects of sound theory.
You will need to refresh your basic physics to get your head around signals, wave theory and the properties of sound. You'll also have to set aside a large wad of cash as this isn't cheap!
There are some great books, too. Paul White (editor of Sound On Sound) has written some good, solid, easy to digest ones and Huber & Runstein penned the fantastic 'Modern Recording Techniques'.
Don't buy gear until you know what you're doing though. You'll ONLY regret it. And never ask the opinion of the staff in the shop! They normally work on commission. If you know what you're talking about they'll leave you alone and you can make an unpressured decision.
;)
T* |
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| TI2ance |
| Great advice, DJ Tequila! |
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