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Regarding the UK protesters...
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| Shakka |
Another interesting article to stir our pot of debates.
http://www.nationalreview.com/comme...00311181102.asp
| quote: | November 18, 2003, 11:02 a.m.
The London Streets
Who are these anti-Bush people?
By Amir Taheri
LONDON — George W. Bush's visit to London this week will be historic for at least two reasons. He will be the first U.S. president to come to Britain on a state visit. He will also observe a bizarre political marriage: one between the remnants of the Marxist-Leninist Left and militant Islamists. Negotiated over the past two years, the "wedding," will be celebrated in a mass demonstration against Bush's visit.
The demonstration is organized by a shadowy group called "Stop the War Coalition," part of the Hate-America-International, which has orchestrated a number of street "events" in support of the Taliban and the Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein since 2001.
When I called the coalition to ask whether the idea was to stop all wars, a spokeswoman assured me that this was not the case.
She referred me to the first article of the coalition's charter that states: "The aim of the coalition is simple: to stop the war currently declared by the United States and its allies against 'terrorism.'"
"We really want to stop Bush and Blair from going around killing babies," she said. "Our objective is to force the U.S. out of Iraq and Afghanistan."
But what if a U.S. withdrawal means the return of the Taliban and Saddam Hussein?
"Anything would be better than American Imperialist rule," she snapped back.
Who are these nostalgics of the Taliban and Saddam Hussein?
The coalition has a steering committee of 33 members. Of these, 18 come from various hard left groups: Communists, Trotskyites, Maoists, and Castrists. Three others belong to the radical wing of the Labour party. There are also eight radical Islamists. The remaining four are leftist ecologists known as "Watermelons" (Green outside, red inside).
The chairman of the coalition is one Andrew Murray, a former employee of the Soviet Novosty Agency and leader in the British Communist party. Cochair is Muhammad Asalm Ijaz of the London Council of Mosques. Members include John Rees of the Socialist Workers' party and Ghayassudin Siddiqui of the Muslim Parliament. Tanja Salem of the Al-awdah (The Return) group, an outfit close to Yasser Arafat, is also a member along with Shahedah Vawda of "Just Peace," another militant Arab group, and Wolf Wayne of the "Green Socialist Network."
A prominent member is George Galloway, a Labour-party parliamentarian under investigation for the illegal receipt of funds from Saddam Hussein. In his memoirs, Galloway says that the day the Soviet Union collapsed was "the saddest day" of his life.
Galloway says the only terrorism in the world today comes from the United States, not from organizations such as al Qaeda or the remnants of the Iraqi Baath party.
The coalition was created in London in September 2001, at first as an exclusively leftist concoction bringing together the remnants of the Stalinist "peace movement" of the 1950s, diehard "no nukes" activists, and some fellow travellers.
The coalition has succeeded beyond the wildest dreams of its founders. For the first time ever it has brought together all radical leftist and anarchist groups. Under its umbrella march such traditional former archenemies as Stalinists and Trotskyites.
But the coalition's biggest success is the alliance that it has forged between the extreme Left and militant Islamist groups. This would have been unthinkable even a couple of years ago. The Left always regarded Islam as a "relic of feudalism" and an instrument of reactionary Arab regimes. For their part, the Islamists regarded leftists as atheist enemies who had to be put to the sword.
The first to advocate a leftist-Islamist alliance against Western democracies was Ayman Al Zawahiri al Qaeda's #2.
In a message to al Qaeda sympathizers in Britain in August 2002, he urged them to seek allies among "any movement that opposes America, even atheists."
The idea has received strong support from Ilich Ramirez Sanchez, the Venezuelan terrorist known as "Carlos the Jackal."
In his book Revolutionary Islam, published in Paris last month, Carlos, who says he has converted to Islam, says he has advised Osama bin Laden, the al Qaeda leader, to forge an alliance with "all guerrilla, terrorist and other revolutionary groups throughout the world, regardless of their religious or ideological beliefs."
Carlos says Islam is the only force capable of persuading large numbers of people to become "volunteers" for suicide attacks against the U.S.
"Only a coalition of Marxists and Islamists can destroy the US," he says.
This week's anti-Bush demonstration in London will mark the emergence of a coalition the hard core of which consists of the radical Left and militant Islamism. Around it we find other groups who hate the U.S. for different reasons. There are supporters of free abortion, opponents of capital punishment, anti-globalization fanatics, advocates of the Kyoto protocol on the environment, and anti-Semites who believe the Jews control the United States. But a good part of the planned demonstrations will, as always, consist of what Lenin called "the useful idiots", men and women of good faith whose political naiveté makes them natural targets for experts in agitprop.
But why are these people taking to the streets?
One reason is that the parties, groups, and individuals involved have consistently failed to find a place in the normal institutions of British democracy.
The 60 or so leftist and Islamist groups involved in this odd enterprise have never managed to win more than one half of one percent of the votes in any British general election. Nor have they succeeded in winning a single seat in parliament or a majority in a single municipal council.
Those who can never win elections, always take to the streets. Street politics enables them to escape debate on complex issues that cannot be reduced to a few simplistic slogans.
Britain's participation in the war against terrorism was the subject of four exhaustive debates in the House of Commons in 2001 and 2002, each followed by a vote that Prime Minister Tony Blair won.
Street politics is for those who wish to abolish individual political judgment, the cornerstone of democratic life. Street politics encourages the irrational tendencies of crowds that could turn into hunting packs or lynch mobs. Power won in the streets produces only ochlocracy (rule by the worst).
To make sure that no discordant voice is heard, the organizers of the demonstrations have announced that only "authorized" t-shirts, hats and other paraphernalia will be allowed. Only four slogans are permitted: "Stop Bush," "Stop Blair," " U.S. Out of Iraq and Afghanistan," and " Bush Go Home!"
The demonstration's security force, made up of muscular Marxists and Islamists, has instructions to prevent any sign of pro-American sentiments. A group that has said it wants to take part in the demonstrations with t-shirts saying "Bush-Cheney: Four More Years!" has been warned of "dire consequences."
The London demonstration is planned and will be supervised in the best Stalinist traditions still in force in North Korea.
In countries that suffer under despotism, the street is, at times, the only space available to the opposition. This is why we hear so much about the so-called "Arab street." But do we need a "British street" that disdains the institutions of democracy, including mainstream political parties, and the parliament? |
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| NYCTrancefan |
| My opinion of these people, Yawn, Yawn. They partake in burning the American flag, drawing as much individual attention to themselves by jumping on police, and screaming as loudly as possible, and using the foulest language can you say (attention whores). Long live democracy, now they can go home and sleep or maybe they will hold another 100,000 person protest :haha: :haha: at least that is the number they claim. Okay I'm bored of this, Goodbye. |
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| Yoepus |
| Actually the protestors are much fewer then anticipated (I thought it would be such.. they always organizers will always overestimate this for shock effect). Only around 35,000 ppl have shown up to protest today in London (and for some odd reason apparently half of them were waving Palestnian flags:conf: ) |
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| NYCTrancefan |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
Actually the protestors are much fewer then anticipated (I thought it would be such.. they always organizers will always overestimate this for shock effect). Only around 35,000 ppl have shown up to protest today in London (and for some odd reason apparently half of them were waving Palestnian flags:conf: ) |
Yeah I saw that, what was that all about, amazingly the hijacked, biased, censored, U.S. Media:rolleyes: showed it on TV including the burning of the U.S flag, the toppling of Bush statue, etc, etc, and I thought that they would tell us all those people were there supporting the U.S. :stongue: :stongue: |
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| TranceGiant |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
Actually the protestors are much fewer then anticipated (I thought it would be such.. they always organizers will always overestimate this for shock effect). Only around 35,000 ppl have shown up to protest today in London (and for some odd reason apparently half of them were waving Palestnian flags:conf: ) |
yeah, how odd :rolleyes: |
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| TiestoFanMatt |
Watched the coverage today of the march, and i have to say some of these people just jump on the bandwagon and are very uneducated. Fine they have a personal problem with Bush, but why burn the flag? it seems totally unecessary. Fortunety we live in a democracy where these protestors are able to do things like this, there are countries that wont, like iraq. Whatever your view is on the war in iraq, you should just try and support the troops now they are over because you are going to do more harm by pulling out than staying in there.
I think allot were uneducated, as one report went something like this...
Journalist: Have you heard about the terrorist attacks in Istanbul today?
Women: Well maybe if we have not invaded Iraq non of this would have happened and many innoncente lives could have been saved
Now is it me but these terrorists do not care about anything apart from hate against any western country. People need educating! |
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| Shakka |
You are correct. A lot of people jumping on the bandwagon trying to get attention for whatever their reason.
My question: Why the hell don't they go out and get jobs? What do they do with themselves when they're not protesting??? |
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| Cyrus King |
Whats wring with protesting? You guys make it sound like everyone there are uneducated bandwagon jumpers ready to cuase . Did it ever strike you that billions of people dislike Bush? That they oppose his policy? That many bun the americann flag because it represents everything American and America and War are always put together. People are burning becuase they hate and dislike....blame your government.
He is probably the most hated man on earth. |
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| NYCTrancefan |
| Maybe a lot of these "activists":haha: would have more credibility if they expressed themselves in rational, well thought out, and well informed opinions, instead they choose to blurt out some of the most asinine slogans and statements that are more fit for the regime of North Korea propoganda machine, and out of the mouth of George W. Bush, their number one bashing boy. When you hear statements such as the Taliban was better in Afghanistan or George Bush is more evil than Saddam Hussein, these individuals operate purely on their contempt for Bush and go over the line of rationality to support the most despotic dictators over a leader of a democratic nation. The irony of all of this is that if they lived in Iran, pre Saddam Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Zimbabwe,etc they would have been dragged off, beaten and tortured or never heard from again,:whip: why then do they fail to protest and stand up for the same rights in those nations that they are expressing by protesting in democracies. After all, injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. Ironic indeed. |
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| Cyrus King |
| quote: | Originally posted by NYCTrancefan
Maybe a lot of these "activists":haha: would have more credibility if they expressed themselves in rational, well thought out, and well informed opinions, instead they choose to blurt out some of the most asinine slogans and statements that are more fit for the regime of North Korea propoganda machine, and out of the mouth of George W. Bush, their number one bashing boy. When you hear statements such as the Taliban was better in Afghanistan or George Bush is more evil than Saddam Hussein, these individuals operate purely on their contempt for Bush and go over the line of rationality to support the most despotic dictators over a leader of a democratic nation. The irony of all of this is that if they lived in Iran, pre Saddam Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Zimbabwe,etc they would have been dragged off, beaten and tortured or never heard from again,:whip: why then do they fail to protest and stand up for the same rights in those nations that they are expressing by protesting in democracies. After all, injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. Ironic indeed. |
Have you ever taken into consideration at the portrayal of these protests throughout the media during the many years. Always, they end up showing the most extreme poster, or clashes with authorities, or people painted with disrespectful slogans against whomever they are protesting against. It is formulaic... close up or show scuffle or eye catching protesters instead of boring protesters that are without extravagant signs.
Im sure most people there just dont like the lack of respect that Bush and CO. have for humanity. Telling lies and then asking for help becuase of the disastrous affects of the lies. |
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| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cyrus King
Have you ever taken into consideration at the portrayal of these protests throughout the media during the many years. Always, they end up showing the most extreme poster, or clashes with authorities, or people painted with disrespectful slogans against whomever they are protesting against. It is formulaic... close up or show scuffle or eye catching protesters instead of boring protesters that are without extravagant signs.
Im sure most people there just dont like the lack of respect that Bush and CO. have for humanity. Telling lies and then asking for help becuase of the disastrous affects of the lies. |
Yes that is true but NYCtrancefan does possess an extremely valid point that does piss me off to no end about protestors in general. That point being, WHY do many of these protestors exhibit the most asinine sense of hypocrisy that one could possibly fathom? That hypocrisy being, that they claim to cherish and value human rights as the fundamental basis for their call to action, YET they choose to come out in the thousands to protest action to remove regimes who are the biggest offenders to human rights. That in itself is not the offensive part, what IS the offensive part, is how activists fail to protest their government's implicit support for these regimes that, in the end, result in the deaths of 10 times as many civilians than the action they eventually protest. Where were the thousands of protestors denouncing France, Germany, and Russia's LONGTIME support of weapons sales and oil interest purchases in Iraq that supported the regime??? Where were the American protestors when the Americans backed the Iraqis with arms sales and chemical weapons during the Iran-Iraq war???? Where were the protests when Rwanda was going on??? How about during the early stages of Kosovo??? There were actually protests arguing against intervention in Kosovo. That is why I can never have any respect for most of these groups ... are they FOR human rights or are they simply for inaction altogether??? |
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| Yoepus |
| occrider, they are simple conservatives in the truest form. They deny change, and wish to return to the status quo they knew that did not exist. By simply "leaving everything alone" you will achieve this and everything will return back to "normal" and we can all live in peace and smoke pot and have sex and .:D |
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