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Grammar Help (pg. 2)
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| daffodil |
| i'm with diginut on this one. my journalism professors wouldn't allow "the usher and i." can't get my head clear enough to explain it, but i know "the usher and me" is correct. |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by daffodil
i'm with diginut on this one. my journalism professors wouldn't allow "the usher and i." can't get my head clear enough to explain it, but i know "the usher and me" is correct. |
Technically, you could satisfy everyone by using "the usher and myself." |
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| igottaknow |
I found that sentence odd but the book says I is correct both in the answer key and in the explaination. I probably can't convince you it's right.
Anyways, I should just move on to other grammar rules, because there are always going to be tricky questions that you can't get right. That's part of my weakness, I spend too much time on questions like that and dont have enough time to finish the test (that's what happened the first time). The book says i should answer 3 of these questions every minute. These are the "easy" questions (indentifing the error) the harder section you're asked to pick best rewording to the sentence that's more time consuming and difficult. |
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| daffodil |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Technically, you could satisfy everyone by using "the usher and myself." |
that's not correct either. it's crept into the language as a replacement for "I" and makes sentences awkward. next time you want to use it, substitute herself, himself, or themselves and you'll see how off it can be. |
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| Boomer187 |
This is why I still take EFL classes....
(EFL = English as a First Language) its way too complex. |
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| DrUg_Tit0 |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Another easy way is to just try taking out the "and" and whatever comes before it.
I.e. take out "the usher and" - doesn't make too much sense to say "the only... were I".
P.S. Thank you for spelling "grammar" right. :p |
Actually you're wrong on this one. In this sentence both the subject and the object are in the nominative form. Saying me in this situation is a common error, but an error nevertheless. "Me" is the dative/accusative form of the word "I". It's kinda confusing for native english speakers since english doesn't have standard declinations. Insetad it only has some remnants of that left in the spelling of pronouns. However, if your native language is one that has declinations, like croatian (7 of them!), then it's easy to see which one is right. |
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| astroboy |
Yeah declensions and conjugations are great when you know them intuitively (as I do in Russian ;))... not so much fun when you have to sit there memorising tables (as i had to do in Latin :nervous: ).
BTW - What's the difference between:
I was the only person in the theater.
and
The only person in the theater was me. <--(surely "I" would be incorrect in this case).
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| Echo of Silence |
| quote: | Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0
Actually you're wrong on this one. In this sentence both the subject and the object are in the nominative form. Saying me in this situation is a common error, but an error nevertheless. "Me" is the dative/accusative form of the word "I". It's kinda confusing for native english speakers since english doesn't have standard declinations. Insetad it only has some remnants of that left in the spelling of pronouns. However, if your native language is one that has declinations, like croatian (7 of them!), then it's easy to see which one is right. |
Yes, exactly. When I learned English, this is how I learned to choose the proper word:
Take sentences like these:
The only people in the theater on that stormy night were the usher and ?. or
The only person in the theater on that stormy night was ?.
As moncster said, invert:
The usher and I were the only people in the theater on that stormy night.
I was the only person in the theater on that stormy night.
Therefore, correct word is "I." Even in your sentence Astro, "I" is correct. Sounds very awkward, yes. But "I" is the correct pronoun.
Now, in English composition, these sentences would both be "red inked":
The only people in the theater on that stormy night were the usher and I.
The only person in the theater on that stormy night was I.
Why? Because they are uncomfortable reads. Rule? Make it comfortable unless your purpose (as the composer) is to create discomfort in the reader. The comfortable read is, of course, this:
The usher and I were the only people in the theater on that stormy night.
or
I was the only person in the theater on that stormy night. |
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| igottaknow |
| quote: | Originally posted by Echo of Silence
Therefore, correct word is "I." Even in your sentence Astro, "I" is correct. Sounds very awkward, yes. But "I" is the correct pronoun.
Now, in English composition, these sentences would both be "red inked":
The only people in the theater on that stormy night were the usher and I.
Why? Because they are uncomfortable reads. Rule? Make it comfortable unless your purpose (as the composer) is to create discomfort in the reader. The comfortable read is, of course, this:
The usher and I were the only people in the theater on that stormy night.
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The funny thing is, the ppl who create these standardized tests seek out uncomfortable sentences structures for the grammar section. Then in the essay section you're expected to do the opposite and write clear concise sentences, like you suggested. |
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| Boomer187 |
| quote: | Originally posted by astroboy
BTW - What's the difference between:
I was the only person in the theater.
and
The only person in the theater was me. <--(surely "I" would be incorrect in this case).
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active and passive voice....?
did I pass? |
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| KLINGKLANG77 |
| quote: | Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0
In this sentence both the subject and the object are in the nominative form.... "Me" is the dative/accusative form of the word "I". It's kinda confusing for native english speakers since english doesn't have standard declinations. |
see that is the problem with english, there is no cases like dative and stuff. i am a native english speaker and am studying german now.
it is almost imposssible to explain it in english but in a another language it makes sense.
the subject is the person doing the action or the verb in the sentence. the direct object is the one that is receiving the action. i cant quite explain it. but hopefully that will help you. |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0
Actually you're wrong on this one. In this sentence both the subject and the object are in the nominative form. Saying me in this situation is a common error, but an error nevertheless. "Me" is the dative/accusative form of the word "I". It's kinda confusing for native english speakers since english doesn't have standard declinations. Insetad it only has some remnants of that left in the spelling of pronouns. However, if your native language is one that has declinations, like croatian (7 of them!), then it's easy to see which one is right. |
I think you mean declension, heh...
Anyway, starting to remember this now. The explanation is simple, really... When pronouns are used as predicate nouns (i.e. after a copula like "was" or "is"), they should be in subjective form.
HOWEVER...
People use this rule inconsistently. If you're actually going to go this route, then as Echo pointed out, the "correct" form is actually The only person in the theater on that stormy night was I. Shrink that sentence down to its most basic form, which is, It is I. That's the correct form, but nobody says that, they say, it's me.
So you have to take your pick. I've figured out now that the reason this rule irritates me so much is that people don't use it consistently, as if there's suddenly a difference between whether the objective or subjective form should be used when it's in conjunction with another object. |
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