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Progress in Iraq (pg. 3)
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| Shakka |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
It is not America's responsibility to police the world. |
Then why is it expected of the U.S. to go into places like Africa, Darfur, etc.?
Further, you said treat others how you want to be treated. I was just pointing out the hypocrisy that that would imply given Saddam's history.
As an aside, I do think the world expects too much from the U.S. |
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| haqq |
Wow... I cried a little.
But in all seriousness, I agree with a lot of this article.
My grandfather whom I talk to that currently lives in Afghanistan, after I told him the "soldiers need to leave our country!"
"Son... son... Believe it or not without these soldiers in our land, there would be a lot of bloodshed and chaos. Turn off the TV, throw away that newspaper and get information from a primary source. I've been living here since the soviets were trying to invade till the Taliban corruption. I've seen it all, and all I can say is... thank you God and thank you brave Soldiers." (paraphrased)
After these words I had an epiphany(sp?).
May God grant all the brave Soldiers the highest of heavens. |
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| haqq |
Also let me add Americans don't do all this help with no return.
Afghanistan = Opium
Iraq = Oil
But still, they help make a change - sometimes for the better. At the end of the day war is business.
...If they can just stop supporting Israel their international affairs would be so much stronger. But meh, its too late for that too much Israeli influence. |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by Shakka
Then why is it expected of the U.S. to go into places like Africa, Darfur, etc.? |
Who is expecting the US to go to Africa and Darfur?
| quote: | | Further, you said treat others how you want to be treated. I was just pointing out the hypocrisy that that would imply given Saddam's history. |
No hypocrisy here. The Iraqis themselves would have given Saddam his due treatment, if only they had a little help. It is not America's job to depose foreign leaders, unless they go around invading other countries.
| quote: | | As an aside, I do think the world expects too much from the U.S. |
Eh, well, the world emphatically opposed the invasion of Iraq. |
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| DJ Damerchi |
Haqq, that's the perspective you can trust most, but many people i know in Iraq don't say the same as in afghanistan(excluding Iraqi Kurdistan). they look back in time, and although they were slightly paralyzed in terms of freedom, there was a great deal of normalcy in day to day matters. Like any regime of this type, dissedents were dealt with in a crude manner. Saddam even became paranoid of his own family members.
I don't know what to say, but I am honestly thinking that Iraq is a nation with so much religious turmoil that the only way to prevent it is to have someone as ruthless as saddam...or seriously consider breaking it up into a federalist system with a great deal of autonomy for the three states. the problem is ing Baghdad..how do we work that into this federalist system. Nominal capital title wont reduce its violence.
If the insurgeons were continually attacking american targets, that would make sense-standing up to the occupier, since an occupier never existed before(during Ba'ath era). Most of the violence is sectarian however, and i wonder how not much of this existed at all during Saddam's time. i assume these plans for sunni/shia warfare were just waiting for the regime to fall and then started to be executed, since it had been boiling for a great deal of time. Saddam was an downright despicable muther******, but he was talented in creating a state that supressed this sectarian violence.
The situation is good for the Kurds relative to the rest of Iraq. Their autnomy since 91 helped them gain self sustainability with the help of a large and effective peshmerga force, and allied protected airspace. There is a large amount of nepotism and corruption, the usual trend with new money(the north gained a substantial amount of foreign investent due to its relative stability). I came into contact with someone of the Barzani family, and this guy had a bigtime scarface complex. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by haqq
Also let me add Americans don't do all this help with no return.
Afghanistan = Opium
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are you seriously trying to argue that the US went into afghanistan because it wanted opium? |
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| haqq |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Damerchi
I don't know what to say, but I am honestly thinking that Iraq is a nation with so much religious turmoil that the only way to prevent it is to have someone as ruthless as saddam...or seriously consider breaking it up into a federalist system with a great deal of autonomy for the three states. |
Honestly DJ, I totally agree with your stance. If we compare the death rates of Iraq under Saddam and post-war its huge number differential. Now I am not saying its all about numbers. But even as a society there was less religious fanatics and extremism. (Which let me add is heavily disliked in Islam). Before it was more "F#@$ SADDAM" now that had turned into "F!@# AMERICA!" But then again the American Soldiers have had their fair-share of just practically abuse in Iraq, from raping to injustice the Iraqis have reasons to bring the hate against.
On your second point your idea isn't falsifiable. In a country with the Shiite Arabs, the Sunni Arabs and the Kurds against each other partitioning the country wouldn't be a bad idea. A less centralized government should do some good.
| quote: | | but he was talented in creating a state that supressed this sectarian violence. |
Yeah but for some reason the Shi'ite Muslims felt he should leave! And they pushed for the Americans to come into Iraq and impeach him. But now that he's gone the Shi'ite are still causing a headache especially through their radical ways. I don't want to take sides, who knows what sect is responsible for what.
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
are you seriously trying to argue that the US went into afghanistan because it wanted opium? |
Let me guess you heard else from Fox news?
Haqq. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
why does every north american ignoramus think that people overseas give a about fox news? we don't ing watch it, ever, you ing tosser.
so let me get this straight: instead of creating a secret government poppy growing program at home, the US government decides to invade afghanistan at a time when it had almost zero poppy cultivation, with the desire to lay claim to the poppies that might be eventually grown there.
what is wrong with you? |
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| haqq |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
why does every north american ignoramus think that people overseas give a about fox news? we don't ing watch it, ever, you ing tosser.
so let me get this straight: instead of creating a secret government poppy growing program at home, the US government decides to invade afghanistan at a time when it had almost zero poppy cultivation, with the desire to lay claim to the poppies that might be eventually grown there.
what is wrong with you? |
Yeah smart one pkc, lets grow 90% of the worlds heroin in America?
Afghanistan supplies virtually all of the world's illegal opium. Last year, the country's drug trade was a $4-billion business.
And plus google maps would totally bust the heroin grow operation in America :stongue: :stongue: |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by haqq
Afghanistan supplies virtually all of the world's illegal opium. Last year, the country's drug trade was a $4-billion business. |
and what was its supply when the US invaded? that's right, zero.
| quote: | Originally posted by haqq
And plus google maps would totally bust the heroin grow operation in America :stongue: :stongue: |
ugh. making a super-secret UNDERGROUND setup would have been far easier/quicker/cheaper than invading another country, lol.
so, amuse me. asides from your slender grip on reality, do you have any reason/evidence to suggest the US is behind/profiting from the opium trade in afghanistan? or is evidence beneath you? :stongue: |
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
or is evidence beneath you? :stongue: |
yuck yuck. you made a pun:tongue2 |
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| josh4 |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
why does every north american ignoramus think that people overseas give a about fox news? we don't ing watch it, ever, you ing tosser.
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well he did come from Australia :) |
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