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Phase Matching??
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| DJ Lazy |
Ok, I got no problems when I am listening to a track or even some big name DJ's mix, and be able to tell where the phases are and where the next track should be dropped in, But when I get on my decks and start mixing, I start to get lost. I either completely miss it, or I miss the first 8 beat, and then that throws me off when I am mixing out of the playing track. I am never too early cuz that is fixable.
So I am just curious if anyone has any tips for me to help me keep track of where the phases are?
Cheers.
:) |
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| MERiDiAN5i2 |
just listen for the major changes.
it all depends what kinda tracks you are spinning.
generally, listen for:
a) change in melodic pattern, usually on 16's or 32's
b) bassbeat silenced for a bar or two, then comes back (phrase starts)
c) big symbol crashes every 16 or 32.
d) beginning of the beats after a breakdown
those are four basic examples of phrase change points. phrases are generally 16 or 32 beats. "sentences" are a phrase or two, and a paragraph is a few sentences. that's how I look at it.
bottom line: listen for the major changes in both the melody and bassline.
try starting the first beat of a record at these points, and then going from there. things will line up and it will become more obvious the more your successful.
start with the easy stuff: when your playing a record and it breaks down, start the first beat of a new record on the first beat after the breakdown. |
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| Zombie0729 |
| well sure, but a phrase simply imply's an added sound to the existing compilation... when you know that sound is coming(which dance music enables usually), thats ur new phrase, if you miss phrase, either bring ur cue record back and wait for the next phrase or speed urs up to however many beats u missed... not too hard. :) just count in ur head how far behind u got. |
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| DJ Lazy |
oops.. missed the "r" in Phrase in my title.. LOL...
anyways... thanks for the tips.. i'm not sure if that is what I was looking for, cuz I kinda already knew that stuff... i just seem to not be able to pick it up or somethign when I am mixing.. I can do it easy when I listening to another mix... :conf: |
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| Dj Flesch |
Just to clarify the difference between phase and phrase, to be in-phase means to beatmatch. To be in-phrase means that beat 1 of track one is matched with beat 1 on track two. It is where you define the begining of a phrase that matters. Normally trance tracks have phrases that are 64 beats long. It will be 64 beats for the warmup (or about 27 and 54 seconds at 140 bpm). You should notice that at 27 seconds, the track will add a few more instruments compared to just a normal bass beat (some add many, but most wait till 54 seconds). So from there you know certain times at a particular BPM (this is one of the major advantages of cd decks! You can calculate when things are supposed to happen and remember those times to help you phrase match EVERY time!)
If you are having a problem counting the beats in your head, then all you need is to listen to music more. Once you start listening and djing every day then you will naturally pick up on when the new phrase begins. You will also pick up on the point at which you should press play or release your vinyl. This is of course not the same point at which you would mix in, the goal here is to release the record about two full phrases (depending on the tracks) before you plan on mixing in so that you can bring the cue track in on the second phrase right as the third to last phrase (about 1:22 mins before the track ends), or the second to last phrase (about 54 secs before the track ends) depending on how much energy you want to transfer. This of course depends on the two tracks. If you live track is really full of energy and your cue track is a bit less, then you need to wait till the second to last phrase to let the energy transition and climb down on it's own. If you have two tracks that have about the same amount of energy, then mix in at the third to last phrase so that you keep the energy going. Just make sure you know where to start the cue track in order to keep that energy up. Sometimes I run into tracks that I have to cue up 4 or more phrases so that at about 1:48 mins I start mixing in.
To sum up, the main thing to remember is to know your music to know when you need to mix out of the live track and listen to your cue track to see how far in to it you have to mix in to keep the energy level up. If you don't keep the energy level consistent through the transition, then you are basically destroying what you try to build up with your track selection.
As far as getting mixed up to when this happens with vinyl, use a watch/timer etc. Count the beats in your head and get to know your music really really well. Everyone says that only practice will make you good, and this is really true. The only way that it will become instinctual to know when a phrase is begining or ending etc is to listen to music ALL the time! |
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| TiksA |
The description Dj Flesch gave you is all nice and mathimatical... but for me it comes natrually. I can be completly not listening or focusing to the song, talking to someone and then all of a sudden I can tune in and know when a new phrase is about to start.
Listening to trance for so long does that to ya... :D |
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| DJ Lazy |
| quote: | Originally posted by TiksA
The description Dj Flesch gave you is all nice and mathimatical... but for me it comes natrually. I can be completly not listening or focusing to the song, talking to someone and then all of a sudden I can tune in and know when a new phrase is about to start.
Listening to trance for so long does that to ya... :D |
Thanks but this doesn't really help me... :rolleyes:
And DJ Flesch.. thanks for the explanation.. Totally thorough,... :D |
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| Dj Flesch |
| quote: | Originally posted by TiksA
The description Dj Flesch gave you is all nice and mathimatical... but for me it comes natrually. I can be completly not listening or focusing to the song, talking to someone and then all of a sudden I can tune in and know when a new phrase is about to start.
Listening to trance for so long does that to ya... :D |
Well, in order to communicate meaning and understanding with phase and phrase matching, you have to be mathmatical and scientific. Otherwise comments like "it comes naturally" does crap to help others understand that which they are asking help understanding. I think that this is shown by Dj Lazy's post above ;)
I have long told people that you can learn one of two ways. You can understand the logic and science behind DJing and then master the physical skills, or you can experiment and never really delve into anything but the artistic side. IMO, there is only an artistic side if you don't understand the logic and physics behind creating a set. Even reading a crowd is a feedback mechanism. I think that there is a great science to picking out tracks. I won't share my secret, but I'll be posting a set in about a month and you can see how I do for myself :) |
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| BelgianGuru |
| You really think all the major DJ's are counting steps like that ? Omg ? If you're counting when playing music, go find another hobby/job. |
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| Dj Flesch |
The intent of my post was to help someone learn how to tell when the phrases begin and end. I also said in the post that the more you listen to trance, the less you have to count beats. I know this because I don't have to count every beat when I mix. In general I will count maybe about 16 beats before I release the cue track, but I can do this because I can instinctively pick up where the phrase is at by just listening.
It's also pretty poor of you to try to insult someone for counting beats. If it truely is my HOBBY, then what does it matter to you if I count beats? And if I'm a proffessional and count beats, well obviously I'm good enough to be a proffessional. Do you personally know "all the major DJs" and have asked them if they count beats? How do you know that they don't. How do you think that they phrase match as well as they do? It's because they, at least minimally, like I, count beats. |
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| razzi |
damn flesch ive noticed you get quite a bit of hell on these boards hehe.. i liked your mathematical analysis though, its a great way to help someone whos starting until they really get the feel for it.
also dj lazy: if you already have a song beat matched to the live one, go to your cue, except let it play for 8 beats (check in headphones). that way, when you notice the next phrase in the live track, you have 8 beats to prepare to let go and get the tracks in phrase.
i did that when i first started djing. i know everyone says this, but ill say it again: know your tracks. its the best way to get your songs in phrase without counting etc etc. |
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| raaven |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dj Flesch
The intent of my post was to help someone learn how to tell when the phrases begin and end. I also said in the post that the more you listen to trance, the less you have to count beats. I know this because I don't have to count every beat when I mix. In general I will count maybe about 16 beats before I release the cue track, but I can do this because I can instinctively pick up where the phrase is at by just listening.
It's also pretty poor of you to try to insult someone for counting beats. If it truely is my HOBBY, then what does it matter to you if I count beats? And if I'm a proffessional and count beats, well obviously I'm good enough to be a proffessional. Do you personally know "all the major DJs" and have asked them if they count beats? How do you know that they don't. How do you think that they phrase match as well as they do? It's because they, at least minimally, like I, count beats. |
that is very true
whether you think it or not we are counting beats in our head if we want the two tracks to be in phrase. i can hear it in the track but there is still some level of beat counting going on. whether it's head bobbing or foot tapping or whatever. and it is also true that it doesn't matter how you do it, it gets done and as long as the end result is an in phrase mix then it doesn't really matter how you got to it. everyone's style is different. that's what makes it so fun to watch some dj's
:) |
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