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British soldiers dying so Israel can have Iraq's oil...
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| George Smiley |
Seriously, is the American administration ING STUPID?!
They are fighting a war on terror. One can only assume their aim is to stop (Islamic) terrorism (altho considering they have benefited quite nicely from 11/9 it makes you wonder if that is their aim). So what do they do? Ask Israel (the enemy of Islam according to the fundamentalists) if they would like America to pump Iraqs oil to Haifa. Is it just me, or is this going to wind al-Qaida up even more?
But what got me, is not the fact that America seems desparate for another 11/9 (or desparate for my country to have one), is this...
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The Prime Minister's Office, which views the pipeline to Haifa as a "bonus" the U.S. could give to Israel in return for its unequivocal support for the American-led campaign in Iraq, had asked the Americans for the official telegram |
haaretz
You ing what?! What "unequivocal support"?!?! I see British soldiers dying in Iraq - I dont see any ing Israelis dying there.
America has two policies when it comes to the Middle East. Two often contradicting policies. The first is oil, the second is Israel. Every action America takes in the Middle East fits into one of those policy areas. The war in Iraq fits perfectly into both. You take out Israel's main threat, who happens to be loaded with oil.
And British soldiers are dying for those objectives...what the have we got out of this?
Tony Blair - what have you done? |
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| tathi |
who's more foolish the fool or the fool(s) that follow him, both our countries administrations are pretty retarded
but this thread will only invite flame not debate ;\ |
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| George Smiley |
If I were Australian I would be equally pissed off that my country men are dying not for their country that they get paid to defend, but so America can fulfil its Middle East objectives
What do the UK or Oz get out of this?! Appart from putting a big red target for the terrorists over our countries? Sod all (can you imagine how much money both the UK and Oz have spent on this war? can you imagine how many hospitals could have been funded with that money?)
This is not a snipe at Israel btw, it is at America (and my government for allowing itself to get sucked into this) and it is also more for me to get it off my chest as I was pissed off when I saw Israel being rewarded for doing sweet FA... |
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| b1_ |
I would assume the Israelis will pay for the oil, so Iraq will benefit.
I mean, what exactly are you suggesting. Do you want a pipeline to the UK? :) Perhaps a brand new set of steak knives? Is the fact that you've freed the country from an oppressive regime, and are actively protecting life and property, while dealing out a little long over due justice, that I'm sure most Iraqis are grateful for, not enough? I'm sure Tony Blair didn't go into the war because he thought he might get something out of it, that's something the French would do.
FYI, not much of US oil comes from the middle east these days, and none of it comes from Iraq I believe. (Last I checked 14% of US oil comes from middle east). The fact that the US found Iraq a customer is good for Iraq, and Israel is the richest country in the middle east I think, so it's all good.
9/11 and the bali bombings happened before Iraq remember. The hates been there for some decades now and I doubt will change no matter what the west does. You can't be cowed by terrorism, that just encourages the terrorists.
And, btw, Australia hasn't lost any soldiers in Iraq yet (fingers crossed). |
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| Dervish |
| quote: | Originally posted by b1_
and none of it comes from Iraq I believe |
Maybe just now but we'll see. Plus the key thing to rember is Iraq is the worlds 3rd biggest oil producer. Or was. The important thing is that control will be exercised over this source. The US can't do that with the rest of the middle east. |
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| George Smiley |
My problem is that every time I read summat about Iraq, it becomes more and more obvious that we have been totally conned into going to war - at the cost of British lives
America gets little of the oil it uses from the Middle East. But thats not what we mean by "controlling" or "taking" Middle East oil is it? We mean making money from it. And if you look at the article, that pipeline will make Israel a tidy sum, which currently goes to Turkey (who are pretty pissed off at this plan)
It just looks to the people of the Middle East that all they (America) is concerned about is Israel and oil - in fact, we all know that anyway but they aren't even trying to hide it any more! |
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| Yoepus |
Wow settle down there Georgey... picture yourself in a nice tropical paradise and take a deep breath...
ok good now maybe you can get some sense into you.
First British troops are fighting this war regardless of the oil. If Israel gets a pipeline through it good for them, do you think this was the whole intention of the war? Do you think it was even an intention or consideration? For all I know it is just what the article said it was, a pressure applying manuveour on Turkey. Unless you have unequivical proof that the Americans contemplated running a pipeline and had conducted private agreement or 'understandings' with Israeli and Jordanian officials the British weren't conned into this war by no one but themselves.
As for the pipeline I think it is a great idea, do you know why? Because I'm an optimist.
Firstly, with the exception of the Syrian pipeline, if you look at a map (http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/midd...st_pol_2003.jpg) a pipeline via Israel and Jordan is economically very viable as it has potential to bridge both Northern and Southern Oil fields directly into a mediterrianian port. And you know who would be the biggest benifcator of this? ... Europe and the UK itself!
Thats right, no more hiked shipping rates to transit the Suez, or hiring oversized dangerous oil tankers to circumnavigate Africa! And you know what the means, cheaper, more reliable fuel at the pumps for you (of course that is assuming your governments won't just take that bit of savings and contribute it to their coffers).
I love the irony of this though, as you know who thought of this pipeline orginally? Yes thats right, you British did! It was operational right when you 'mandated' the whole region as a collection of your Empire. When you left, the pipeline stopped. Now that you've come back...
Now more pluses to the construction of such a pipeline:
It creates capitalism! If you have TWO pipelines going to the mediterranian or shipping through the gulf, you know transport cost are going to be competitive, and that means everyone wins.
More winners: The Jordanese - perhaps the most liberalized Arab country in the whole region who is also able to keep their terrorist at bay very well (unlike some other Palestinian populate regions ;)).
You tell me - you have a pipeline that is being attack about once per week going through turkey with limited capacity, and then you have another pipeline going through the friendly allied nations of Jordan and Israel (both again mind you British Imperial relics..oh wait Iraq is too, how could I forget to mention you guys started that mess? uch!) with higher capcaity and without terrorist threat (there hasn't been a terrorist strike in niether country's infastructure in at least 20 years).
So not only you get more options to transit oil out of Iraq (which means more $$$ for Iraq), you get a secure option, but best of all is the symbolisim. A Pan-Middle Eastern, Arab-Israeli co-operartion, that can demonstrates that Israelis and Arabs can have some common ground. Further it would increase the pacification of the region - nations that have strong economic ties between them are less then likely to all of a sudden go up to war against one another.
Honestly, if such a thing were to exist I can only see good of it coming to all parties involved. Of course this won't happen unfortunately, because most Europeans are like yourself too blind to the image you would like to see, conceding your morality to the view of the fanatical Arab majority.:(
oh and just because you don't see Israeli soldiers dying for Iraq doesn't mean they aren't - thats unequivocal support in my view. |
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| NYCTrancefan |
| Yawn! another Israeli bashing thread, is this old or what. We all know the U.S. supports Israel, the Euros support the "Arabs" so in the end nothing changes. My only concern right now is that Bush is gone come November, the least of the reasons for that being Israel. |
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| Izzy |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
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honestly, you have to admit, this is a win-win situtation.
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oh and just because you don't see Israeli soldiers dying for Iraq doesn't mean they aren't - thats unequivocal support in my view. |
shhhhhh ;) |
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| DaveSZ |
| quote: | Originally posted by NYCTrancefan
Yawn! |
Ra ra ra go team go!!!!!!
That's what all these threads sound like. :haha: |
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| NYCTrancefan |
| quote: | Originally posted by DaveSZ
Ra ra ra go team go!!!!!!
That's what all these threads sound like. :haha: |
True dat indeed. You must admit that the amount that involves Israel or how Israel becomes involved even when it isn't about Israel is amazing. Yes I know its a forum people can talk about any subject, problem is it usually deteriorates into flames from opposite sides. Sometimes a serious discussion takes place other times a shouting match, just my observation from reading the posts though. |
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anyone? 
