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beatmixing in club level
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| ac dc |
hi guys, wanted to ask DJs who have spin in clubs with proper sound system and setup...
i was trying to beatmatch 2 songs together.
i feel they are well beatmatched based on the training/hearing standards from practices at home...
but once i release the next track live, it wasnt well beatmatched at all...when i listen to my head phones i can hear the track running...any reason for this?
the club is a relatively average size place which can hold 300 people.
i monitor using left ear on my hearphones(incoming track) and right ear on the live sound(outgoing track)...
thanks |
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| bachatu |
It's difficult when you do it for the first time, as there is many other noises in the overall atmosphere (you may not be used to it), as opposed to when you are in a studio or at home. Experience will help you adapt to different sound systems. As long as it's a proper setup with monitors, you should be able to cope with the one ear monitoring.
Also, some earphones may work well in a quiet environment, while I have found others to work better in a loud gig environment. |
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| RIP_Technics |
| im fcukin panickin - im DJin 2nite in a competition and i've never played out before. Im pretty good in my bedroom, rarely mess up but i've just got a funny feelin about this... im gonna die 2nite |
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| ScratchMaster |
Ac Dc the problem is not with you beatmatching.It is difficult at a club due to the atmosphere but thats not the problem either.It is with the sound set up at this club.
You haven't mentioned it in your post but I am almost sure the setup does not have monitors for the DJ.
You follow the most common method.Most Dj's use the left ear for incoming and right ear for out going.
The problem arises cause in this club there are no monitors so you beatmatch by listening to the main sound with your right ear.There is a delay in the sound.....i.e the sound reaches the headphones before it reaches the main speakers.
So what happens is you manage to find the pitch perfectly....you take the slider up but you will find the beats off. I guarantee you will have to 'plus ' everytime to get it matched. But if you hear it in your headphone you will feel the track is running and the temtation to 'minus' it will be very strong. But if you do then it will go off again.
The only solution is once you've found your pitch you need to hear both the tracks in your headphone and take the slider up. Once both the sliders are up then don't go back to the headphones cause IT WILL CONFUSE YOU!
If you have to bend then try and do it without listening to the haedphoes[very tough I know but thats what you get in a club without a proper set up.
If by some chance the club has monitors then there is a delay in the monitors as well which is very surprising cause that almost never happens.
Lemme know if you didn't understand any part of what I was trying to say.These problems are tough to put into words.
RIP_Technics if there are monitors at the competition you'll have no problem.
Best of Luck. |
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| Nemesis44 |
| quote: | Originally posted by ac dc
hi guys, wanted to ask DJs who have spin in clubs with proper sound system and setup...
i was trying to beatmatch 2 songs together.
i feel they are well beatmatched based on the training/hearing standards from practices at home...
but once i release the next track live, it wasnt well beatmatched at all...when i listen to my head phones i can hear the track running...any reason for this?
the club is a relatively average size place which can hold 300 people.
i monitor using left ear on my hearphones(incoming track) and right ear on the live sound(outgoing track)...
thanks |
Hey there AC DC,
This can be a hard experience for a young DJ to say the least. Basically it makes you feel like you are having to learn a ton of new things that you thought you had mastered.
What it actualy boils down to is if you have monitors to help you and how the speakers in the club are set up.
There are many things that happen to the sound in a club before it reaches your ear. It mixes with clubbers, bounces off walls and funriture and a whole manner of sounds not to mention the quality of the actual speakers themselves and the direction they are facing.
Bachatu also mentioned headphones which is another factor. When playing out it's only worth having really good ones as most of the cheaper stuff really only works at home.
If you don't have a monitor at the club it sounds like you would be better off mixing in the headphones if the mixer gives that opportunity. Otherwise what you can do is when queing is lift the headphone away from your ear to create a slight lag between the sound and when it gets to your ear, just like the club sound. This method is very hard to master but it may help. If it's a loud system you may have trouble hearing the headphone though.
Playing out is a big challenge but once you understand how sound works you will get comfortable with it.
RIP_Technics
Don't worry about it... there will most likely be a few guys just like yourself. If you know you are good then it will get you a long way. Think if it like this... Just step up there and imagine that you own the place. Confidence goes a long way, if you look as if you are supposed to be there then they will forgive a lot. Remember to have fun and remember that DJ comps don't simulate what it's really like playing out. At a comp you are being assessed on your skills, on a dance floor people want to be entertained.
Depending on who judges the thing you may also find some strange results. People arent' always looking for best mixes but it is important to flow. And make the last thing you play memorable as it's what they will associate you with.
Best of luck for tonight mate.
Cheers
Nem |
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| ScratchMaster |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nemesis44
If you don't have a monitor at the club it sounds like you would be better off mixing in the headphones if the mixer gives that opportunity.
This will help.
Otherwise what you can do is when queing is lift the headphone away from your ear to create a slight lag between the sound and when it gets to your ear, just like the club sound.
This wont help.
Cheers
Nem |
Nemesis the second method does not help because the problem is not that the sound from the main speakers takes time to get to you.
The sound reaches the main speakers late after going through the Equalizer,the Crossover and the amplifiers.That is why there is a delay.
If the distance from the sound was the problem then even monitors would not help cause you are 3-4 feet away from the monitor as well.With monitors the signal reaches the monitors the same time it reaches your headphones so beatmatching is a breeze. |
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| Nemesis44 |
| quote: | Originally posted by ScratchMaster
Nemesis the second method does not help because the problem is not that the sound from the main speakers takes time to get to you.
The sound reaches the main speakers late after going through the Equalizer,the Crossover and the amplifiers.That is why there is a delay.
If the distance from the sound was the problem then even monitors would not help cause you are 3-4 feet away from the monitor as well.With monitors the signal reaches the monitors the same time it reaches your headphones so beatmatching is a breeze. |
Err.. the reason why it's delayed doesn't really matter does it... that fact that it is, is the issue here. Lag is lag whatever the cause.
What you are doing is just simulating it in your headphones by lifting it off slightly. I'm not saying this method will work for everone but it does help some people. For some reason when the sound of the club mixes with what's coming from the headphones it seems to lag the sound from the headphones a little. I find this helps but others may not.
I am talking about situations where you have no monitors and no split cue options etc. Then you have to rely on the sound from the main system.
Don't get me wrong, I know the reasons for the delay you have listed above are correct but there is more to it besides. I have played at tons of clubs in my career and encountered lots of different soundsystems that give loads of different issues, echoes, delays and phasing to name but a few. Speaker possitioning can mess you up just as much if not more than lag between hardware. Sometimes the monitors are wired up wrong and sometimes they are just plain crap.
All you have to know as a DJ is that there is a delay and the best way to deal with the situation. That only comes with experience.
Cheers
Nem |
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| Ibiza Dreams |
Good points Nem. Your posts are always very informative, at least in the Dj Booth.
Quick question though. I might be playing out very soon, at a decent sized club... maybe 500 people? I'm not sure how their sound system is setup, but realistically, how hard is it to mix IN the headphones? I do it at home and it works great for me. Is it extremely tough if the sound system is loud? Or is it possible if you concentrate on your headphones and try to mentally block out the main speakers. Or is it that you MUST adapt to one-ear monitoring at a club. It seems from all these posts that you need to constantly adapt if you are playing in different venues. It's impossible to mix INSIDE the headphones at any given moment? Thanks bro.
ID |
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| ac dc |
hi thanks man that was informative and certainly come to help...
im sorry... i didnt type in greater details...so i would like to fill in now with the rest...
it is a well eqpted place... with 3 x technics 1210, rane mixer with split cue option, dual cdj denon 2600, and have monitor speakers facing me from top right at around 2 metres away from me...
my difficulties,
1) the volume was very loud and probably im not used to the volume also...
the problem is that despite having monitor speakers i couldnt differiate whether the sound came from the monitor speakers or the main room speakers...Or is it because i didnt turn up the monitor speakers enough?... QN: does the volune from the monitor speakers have to be louder than that of the main room speakers?
also when i go into the transition i wasnt sure if it sounded alright...i hear a not very pleasant distorted sound... but i dont know if it sounded bad or the volume was overloaded from the main speakers...
2) at home i use technics 1200...i realise there is a difference between the 1210 and the 1200... and have problems adapting to the slower pick up rate of the technics 1210.
i hope i have give a much better picture of what has happened and hopefully u guys can help... this problem doesnt justify the hours of training at home...
anyway, it was a good night and the people enjoyed the music... just that there were other DJs around too... and when they hear the beat run... they feel u are technically not good enough and u lose respect from the DJing community in my country. |
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| RIP_Technics |
| quote: | Originally posted by ac dc
2) at home i use technics 1200...i realise there is a difference between the 1210 and the 1200... and have problems adapting to the slower pick up rate of the technics 1210.
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lol - m8 the only differnce between the 1200s and the 1210s is their COLOUR :)
anyways.. i doubt ur monitors would have to be louder than ur main speakers but it would probably be right to say they have to be at a level where u can hear them clearly.
also u said somethin about the music sounding distorted? The one thing that springs to mind would be the channel volumes were spiking red on the equaliser? Try and keep them in the green at all times.
Sorry if this didnt help im new to DJin out myself.. |
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| ScratchMaster |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nemesis44
All you have to know as a DJ is that there is a delay and the best way to deal with the situation. That only comes with experience.
Cheers
Nem |
Couldn't agree with you more.I've been playing for about 3 years now[guess that makes me a noobie by your standards]and if there is one thing I've learnt its that there is no substitute for experience.
Ac Dc ideally your monitor volume should be turned up to a level where you cant hear the main sound.As for it not sounding right you can just put that down to the club surroundings. |
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| Nemesis44 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ibiza Dreams
Good points Nem. Your posts are always very informative, at least in the Dj Booth.
Quick question though. I might be playing out very soon, at a decent sized club... maybe 500 people? I'm not sure how their sound system is setup, but realistically, how hard is it to mix IN the headphones? I do it at home and it works great for me. Is it extremely tough if the sound system is loud? Or is it possible if you concentrate on your headphones and try to mentally block out the main speakers. Or is it that you MUST adapt to one-ear monitoring at a club. It seems from all these posts that you need to constantly adapt if you are playing in different venues. It's impossible to mix INSIDE the headphones at any given moment? Thanks bro.
ID |
Hey there ID,
Providing the mixer let's you then you should be ok mixing in your phones as long as you have some pretty good ones.
The thing I would try to prepare you for is how loud a club system actually is, as this will definately be a change from what you are used to. The other thing you may have trouble with is hearing your phones but cup your hand and put it over the top of one of the ear pieces if you have to and press a little if need be.
If you are going to mix in your phones then what I would suggest to you is this, take them off your ears every so often just to check the sound of the mix so that what is happening in your ears is also being played on the dancefloor.
Once in the mix I would actually recomend that you use the monitors to control it anyway. This will help you know what everyone is hearing and will help you EQ better.
Something worth doing right that a lot of DJs don't is to EQ properly and I'm not talking about what you do during a mix but making sure that your levels are good so that you have a complete sound. To many times you hear DJs have too much high end or just a complete bass noise. Get there early and check to see how you want to sound if you can. Get a feel of what a good sound is like on the monitors and memorise roughly where the settings are on the mixer and then use it accordingly.
You don't have to adapt to one ear monitoring at a club but it's always good to be able to use all sorts of techniques as you never know what you will face.
I hope this helps some
Cheers
Nem |
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