|
Channel LEDs in a Club
|
View this Thread in Original format
| RIP_Technics |
| As a rule, when im mixin in my bedroom i keep my channel leds in the green. i djed last sunday for the first time in a club and they used the same mixer (DJM-600) and the resident was on b4 me. He had the channel's way in the red (not all the way up but a few blocks anyway). Is it alrite to do this in a club atmosphere (because it sounds crappy when i do it in my own house) or would u recommend keepin it in the green @ all times? |
|
|
| KiNeTiC ENeRgY |
| It should just occasionally flash in the red, it shouldn't always be in the red when its set up right. Sounds like he might be over-driving the system some? Did it sound ok to you before you went on? |
|
|
| RIP_Technics |
| yea it sounded normal - he had the master slider at half way. would that compensate for the red? |
|
|
| Spin Doctor |
| I get mine to peak at the first red LED on my DJM600, I think that’s about 1db, can’t remember. |
|
|
| Freak |
All depends how they are set up. some will allow max red bars on the output- and they still have a light which will flash when they clip.Others (formula sound being a prime example) distort like f*ck when you go into the red.
All the club systems i have played on allow it to go max red on the master and channels- although i personally keep the channels just flicking to red on and off.
All depends how the system is set up- remember it also has to go through amps and limiters- how the gain structure is set on these will affect how much you have to push the channels and master |
|
|
| MERiDiAN5i2 |
I find the DJM series tend to distort and/or clip once they start hitting the red, possibly more so than other "high end" mixers
it'd be better (from a purist's viewpoint) to run the DJM just barely peaking into the red now and then.. and turn up the gain on the next thing in the signal path (limiter/compressor, line mixer, amp, whatever) |
|
|
| DeleriuM2K |
channel fader LEDs are only affected by input levels (controlled by EQ and gain/trim) and are not affected by the output levels (channel fader itself)
keeping the channel fader at 50% or 100% wont make a difference to what the LED displays on the channel faders. So if the LEDs are way in the red that means your gain/EQs are too high, and so you should adjust that to compensate.
If you just turn down your volume faders in this event, you still going to be playing the maxed out distorted signal, just at a lower output volume.
Many DJs I know have this sick habit :p of putting the gain way up around 75% which boosts the input way too much and distorts the sound.
for regular volume vinyl/CDs I keep the gain at 50%. This way Im just flickering in the red on my channel faders (this is on a DJM3000 btw) |
|
|
| sektile |
| in a perfect world, you should have the channels peaking at 0db, but ive seen heaps of international djs just set the gains to a set level b4 they even start mixing and just let the system compression do the work, but if you ask me thats just ter quality then you can get tweaking the gain for each track. |
|
|
| djskylz |
I use my mixer, and i use them up to +6 dB (witch is the max on the VU meter). My mixer don't tend to distort (witch is quite normal, i figured out that it has a headroom of +20 dB). I use 2 amps, and they also don't tend to distort @ +6 dB. For recording i just put the input of my CDR on -6 dB, so it makes a nice 0 dB at the end.
In some clubs i've played they use the same brand of mixers, and they put the output way over the +6 dB. Still no sound of distortion. So it really depends on the mixer, and the capability of the amps' inputchannels.
Greetz Maarten |
|
|
| RobSolaris |
hi
as already mension
in most clubs
there is an audio compressor
to stop it from distorting.
So its still ok to go red for awhile or
abit over at times.
but its always best to leave it at 0db while spinning or while recording.
hope that helps |
|
|
| Dj Thy |
The 0 dB mark is there for something. It's the point measured with the optimal quality. So for optimum sound quality, you would better run it around that mark (and this counts for all audio equipment, they just don't all have a specific 0 dB marked on them, amplifiers have an optimal input also). The headroom is there as a reserve. Reserve needed for fast transients. If you constantly run your stuff in the red, you decrease that reserve range. Don't go thinking if you hear no distortion, there is no distortion. Audible distortion is a subjective matter, and actually by the time you hear it, there is already A LOT.
The matter is complicated also by the different reaction speeds from different meters. Old needle VU meters react slowly, so you must "under modulate it" (the time it's hitting the 0 mark, some peaks have already been way in the bad zone). Nowadays, with most dj mixers, we have more peak response meters (faster, show fast peaks already, but not really immediate). With those you are already a little bit more accurate, but they still don't show you the fastest transients. The most accurate meters are digital peak meters (like in audio editor programs), because they need to have sample accurate response (need I remember you that you can't go over 0 dB FS, clipping is VERY bad in digital).
So, in general, try to stay around 0 dB, occasional peaks in the red zone are ok. There is headroom, so make sure it's used for what is what designed for.
Many dj's think driving it in the red means louder. Well let me tell you, they should have got better amps and speakers then.
Skylz, another matter, of course it depends on the way the attenuator works on your cd recorder, but with digital devices, you want to drive the ADC (analog to digital convertors) as hot as you can. That is for signal to noise ratio's.
So first of all, driving your mixer into the red, might still sound good. But like I said above, some transients may already be in the distorted area (depending on the electronics of your mixer, usually nowadays, you'll have a more compressed sound). Now let's assume that input attenuator is placed in front of the ADC. A simple rule is every bit is worth about 6 dB signal to noise ratio (6x16=96 dB, the figure you usually get for 16 bit). If you attenuate, your ADC will probably not be driven up full (I know you compensate, but it's more complicate than that). In the end, you'll have lost some signal in favor of noise. You won't hear it probably.
But that's the case. In audio, the big rule is, get it as clean as possible at the source. God knows what treatments you will do on it later. Every treatment means another degradation of the signal. Maybe very small degradations, but it's the sum of all those that makes the difference.
I know, we're only some dj's. In studio's, they are very careful about that. Input gains are adjusted very carefully, so the maximum signal transfer can occur. Sometimes complete circuits are redesigned just to squeeze that little extra out of them. It may not be as critical for dj's, but I like to think that in the long run, every effort you do to preserve sound quality is worth it.
But hey, do what you want, I see a lot of big jocks going nuts on equipment, while I ask myself if they really know what they are doing. When I go to clubs nowadays, and I see (well, hear) what's happening there, I start to understand why people start to have hearing problems at younger age now... |
|
|
| BradP |
| I'm surprised at how many of you keep them in red. Isn't there a huge chance of blowing your speakers or shorting something out? I'm just a bedroom dj but even if I did play out i'd think I would still keep them around 0db. |
|
|
|
|
