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How do you feel about the killing of Ahmed Yassin(Hamas leader) (pg. 6)
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| astroboy |
Several points to make here (speaking as a law student who has admittedly studied very little internatinal law):
1) Assassinations are perfectly legal during times of war, so long as the person being assassinated is classified as an enemy combatant. As long as the Israeli army's classification of Yessin as such was accurate, the action they took are completely legitimate.
2) Amnesty International has no authority to make, apply or enforce laws of any kind regarding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. (or any other conflict that I know of).
3) Targeted killings of enemy combatants during times of conflict. Particularly where those combatants hide among innocent civillians (as Hamas leaders have a tendency to do), is the most humane way to eliminate them. "Sinking to their level" would have been if the Israeli army set off explosions in random public places hoping to get some Hamas operatives. When compared to this type of 'untargeted' killing, targeted killings (of the type to which Yessin fell victim) are clearly more humane. |
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| Yoepus |
| quote: | Originally posted by astroboy
Several points to make here (speaking as a law student who has admittedly studied very little internatinal law):
1) Assassinations are perfectly legal during times of war, so long as the person being assassinated is classified as an enemy combatant. As long as the Israeli army's classification of Yessin as such was accurate, the action they took are completely legitimate.
2) Amnesty International has no authority to make, apply or enforce laws of any kind regarding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. (or any other conflict that I know of).
3) Targeted killings of enemy combatants during times of conflict. Particularly where those combatants hide among innocent civillians (as Hamas leaders have a tendency to do), is the most humane way to eliminate them. "Sinking to their level" would have been if the Israeli army set off explosions in random public places hoping to get some Hamas operatives. When compared to this type of 'untargeted' killing, targeted killings (of the type to which Yessin fell victim) are clearly more humane. |
hehe yea hear that!
Stay away from the courthouse Georgey and Palestinian;)
:disbelief :happy2: |
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| Cal |
Honestly, what's the point of arguing with people that put all their free time into three page long posts in reply to your five line paragraph?
And as to the assassination issue, if you are happy about this you are only lying to yourself. The bombings will escalate as the angered Palestinians retaliate, the guy will be replaced by someone else, and the cycle will go on until the issue is resolved.
This is a hollow victory that will make this pathetic war even more bloody. |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cal
Honestly, what's the point of arguing with people that put all their free time into three page long posts in reply to your five line paragraph? |
I could just as well ask what's the point of arguing with someone who just asks "what's the point of arguing" and acts like they've won the argument without even trying?
| quote: | And as to the assassination issue, if you are happy about this you are only lying to yourself. The bombings will escalate as the angered Palestinians retaliate, the guy will be replaced by someone else, and the cycle will go on until the issue is resolved.
This is a hollow victory that will make this pathetic war even more bloody. |
Proo...oooof? What's that?? |
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| Cal |
Whatever guy, I'm not here to argue, I just posted my opinion and unlike most of the people here, don't make the goal of my life to sit on a politics board and, foaming at the mouth, post properly cited essays on how a person you've never talked to before is dumber than you.
Get a life. |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
hehe yea hear that!
Stay away from the courthouse Georgey and Palestinian;)
:disbelief :happy2: |
The death penalty, in some states of the United States of America, is legal. Even though the death penalty is legal, it still has no place in a democratic civilised nation... |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cal
Whatever guy, I'm not here to argue, I just posted my opinion and unlike most of the people here, don't make the goal of my life to sit on a politics board and, foaming at the mouth, post properly cited essays on how a person you've never talked to before is dumber than you.
Get a life. |
So what *are* you here for? To tell people on the internet to get lives? :haha:
If you're not here to argue, then don't! If you are, then argue properly instead of making blanket generalizations and offensive and/or condescending comments.
George, out of curiosity, how do you define civilized? (I'm not arguing for or against the death penalty here, just curious where exactly you're coming from on that). |
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| anuneventrade |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
The death penalty, in some states of the United States of America, is legal. Even though the death penalty is legal, it still has no place in a democratic civilised nation... |
Chemical castration is also legal in four states.
(Just throwing a random fact out there that I had learned in one of my lectures :p)
I'm going to have to go with DigiNut on this one and ask for your definition of a "civilized" nation.
Main Entry: civ·i·lize
Pronunciation: 'si-v&-"lIz
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): -lized; -liz·ing
transitive senses
1 : to cause to develop out of a primitive state; especially : to bring to a technically advanced and rationally ordered stage of cultural development
2 a : EDUCATE, REFINE b : SOCIALIZE 1
intransitive senses : to acquire the customs and amenities of a civil community
Techinological advances are what made the death penalty able to happen. Criminals use and abuse the leniency administered to those on the death penalty. More likely than not, it won't happen, whether it was through acquittal or due to the fact that they wait for so long for the sentence to be carried out that they die on their own terms. Most likely though, there will be no charge of the death penalty, and a mass murderer who raped and killed little children will have free shelter, food, exercise, and entertainment for life until parole, upon which he then recieves housing and an immediate job. Doesn't sound too shabby to me.
The process to actually follow through with the death penalty is so complicated right now, that it's nearly impossible for a criminal to actually get killed. Not only that, but the procedures of actually going through with taking their life are so meticulously cautious, that it's costing tax payers unbelievable amounts of money to make sure that the criminal is killed safely.
IMO, I wouldn't want a mass murderer to be released back into society after a certain amount of time, nor would I appreciate being billed for his keeping in jail. |
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| astroboy |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
The death penalty, in some states of the United States of America, is legal. Even though the death penalty is legal, it still has no place in a democratic civilised nation... |
I agree that the death penalty has no place ina civilised society. However what occurred was both legally and morally different to a death sentence handed down by a judiciary for a crime comitted. The chief difference is that it occurred in a time of war. By definition in times of war the rules a civilised society abides by change by necessity - as a matter of protection of sovreignty, and security (primarily security in this case).
Assassination of enemy combatants is something many countries have engaged in at some time, and an activity most countries in times of war would engage in if given the chance. The US tried to assassinate Saddam, and Osama (long before S11). Essentially your critique comes from a typically idealistic and Utopian left-wing perspective. It is not a condemnation of Israel, but rather the standard of practice adopted by most of the world during war.
PS - Incidentally, the state of Israel does not have the death penalty. |
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| Yoepus |
| quote: | Originally posted by astroboy
PS - Incidentally, the state of Israel does not have the death penalty. |
Actually it is technically on the books. But it can't be used against any except in case of High Crimes.
And I'm not sure, but I think the state can't execute an Israeli citizen for any reason.
Realisitcally, Israel only used the death penalty once in its history, for Adolph Eichmann. |
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| astroboy |
| quote: | Originally posted by anuneventrade
... a mass murderer who raped and killed little children ... |
Correction: A person who was found beyond a reasonable doubt (not beyond all adoubt), by a jury of his peers (who may all be uneducated, white-trash, rednecks), to have committed mass murder and rape of children.
Yoepus - Cheers. I stand corrected. |
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| Bronze |
it's peurf
this guy (the old one) had to be killed. He was not a good person. USA have to destroy all ed up country...hehehe |
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