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The U.N. Thread (pg. 2)
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| arctic |
I must admit that my knowledge when it comes to the UN isn't very good, but I do strongly support the need for an international organization. I realize that the UN has some flaws, and can be inefficient at times. Attempts need to be made to rectify this, rather than just harping on about how you hate the UN, some positive suggestions as to how to fix the problems that they have might be good.
Finally, I've noticed that a large proportion of Americans seem to dislike the UN. Now I know I'm merely speculating here, but in some instances could this be due to the fact that they can't control it? I'm not trying to stereotype here, as I've come across a lot of Americans who dislike it due to it's perceived efficiency issues or it's apparent inaction, but I also seem to run into some Americans who seem to resent the fact that they don't control what the UN does.
By the way, great idea for a topic.  |
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| igottaknow |
| quote: | Originally posted by anuneventrade
:eyes: I live in Orlando!! :eyes: |
shouldn't be that hard to spot occrider, not many business travelers sport an iraqi beret :stongue:
| quote: | Originally posted by arctic
Finally, I've noticed that a large proportion of Americans seem to dislike the UN. ...as I've come across a lot of Americans who dislike it due to it's perceived efficiency issues or it's apparent inaction, but I also seem to run into some Americans who seem to resent the fact that they don't control what the UN does. |
If you haven't noticed I'm an American and I'm a big supporter of the UN. Because of it geographic location (not close to Europe or Asia) and it lack of colonial history, it’s never been a popular policy to get involved foreign affairs and there for not support the UN. Just remember that an American president, Wilson, was the father of the League of Nations, which would later become the UN.
Now days, the conservative party has taken up the torch of isolationism or unilateralism. Most American UN haters get their ammunition from politicians who use the UN as a whipping boy to transfer the blame for foreign problems created by lack of diplomacy and failed policies to the UN. You would believe how well it plays at home. Take for example Iraq; if the UN was in charge instead of the US our politicians would be screaming bloody murder at what an inept job was being done. But since we are in charge the public is asked to be more patient and understanding. |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by igottaknow
It took two world wars to convince us for the need of an International organization such as the UN to mediate conflicts and to defend the human rights of all people. Idiots of this forum are quick to denounce the UN, but they provide no other viable alternatives to deal with world peace. |
Jesus man, can you stop being condescending for one post!? Is everyone who disagrees with you automatically considered an idiot?
Man, you are really nothing but a pretentious prick. Even if your points are valid, I just don't even want to debate with you because of how far you've got your nose stuck up in the air.
And you wonder why people's posts are "emotionally charged" - maybe it's because you seem unable to stop yourself from calling us stupid extremist idiots? |
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| Yoepus |
bah i'm just too sick of the UN to jump into another thread on the topic.
Maybe I'll pick up after the frontline Thursday with the UN's failure in Rwanda. |
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| igottaknow |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
Maybe I'll pick up after the frontline Thursday with the UN's failure in Rwanda. |
Yeah I'd want to see the Rwanda Frontline special too thanks for reminding me. |
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by igottaknow
It took two world wars to convince us for the need of an International organization such as the UN to mediate conflicts and to defend the human rights of all people. Idiots of this forum are quick to denounce the UN, but they provide no other viable alternatives to deal with world peace. |
I wish I lived in your world...so cozy and warm. |
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| Yoepus |
Q5echo, I think the best alternative to the UN is the US.
If you want "world peace" the best is to have one strong hegemon.
Of course this as everything is risky - but I'm a supporter of the status quo. The UN serves a role corrupt and inefficient as it is. I'm just glad it is marginalized. |
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| arctic |
| quote: | Originally posted by igottaknow
If you haven't noticed I'm an American and I'm a big supporter of the UN. Because of it geographic location (not close to Europe or Asia) and it lack of colonial history, it’s never been a popular policy to get involved foreign affairs and there for not support the UN. Just remember that an American president, Wilson, was the father of the League of Nations, which would later become the UN. |
Actually, I did notice that. I do know that there are many supporters of the UN in the US, but with the growing influence and power of the religious right, they almost seem to be getting swamped by anti-UN conservatives. I myself am critical of the UN on a number of issues, they've really screwed up some things, but when you compare what they've done with what the US has done of late, to me, it doesn't look so bad anymore. Either way, an objective review and comprehensive examination of the UN and it's apparent inefficiency might go some way to fixing some of it's problems. Come to think of it, the US could do with that as well. :p |
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| Arbiter |
I know I've posted the problem that I have with the U.N. in another thread. But unfortunately the search button couldn't locate my previous post, so I'll have to write a new one.
International law, as well as the decisions of an international organization such as the U.N. possess one inherent flaw: they are enforceable only to the extent that the member nations of the U.N. are willing to abide by and enforce them.
Suppose the leader of a country is to be arrested and tried for war crimes, for instance. It is unlikely that he will turn himself over, or that his people or military would support the U.N. decision over his own. Therefore, in order to bring him to justice, the U.N. must try to force him to comply by either placing some sort of sanctions upon the country, or by staging an invasion.
Sanctions have been historically proven to be ineffective. The leaders are almost unaffected while the people suffer. If the people begin to rise up because of their suffering, the leader becomes more brutal and vicious in order to maintain power.
So we are left with invasion. But wasn't the U.N. supposed to be an organization for peace? Furthermore, what if the nation is a nuclear power? You can't exactly just invade them with the intent of punishing their leader and expect that same leader to refrain from using his nuclear arsenal to protect himself.
Because of this, the U.N. can only really try to play the role of mediator - not arbiter - in international conflicts. When the U.N. tries to extend its power beyond that role, it just ends up failing miserably. |
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| igottaknow |
| Arbiter, I agree I don't think the UN role should include enforcement. Part of the problem is our desire to use the stick instead of the carrot, to solve problems. I favor a ground up approach, where the UN aids in raising the standard of living and in general improve the condition of people especially in the third world. Civil wars and terrorism are born in regions where people have no hope. People without hope often turn to anyone even a brutal dictator or terrorist organization for help. Here the UN has it best chance by concentrating on prevention. If you think about it, the hot spots the UN is dealing with meet the conditions I described: (Palestine, Iraq, Haiti, North Korea, Afghanistan, Rwanda, Burma...). |
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| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by anuneventrade
:eyes: I live in Orlando!! :eyes: |
Do you really? Where abouts? They stuck me at the wyndham if you know where that is ... basically I'm resigned to going to pleasure island and the like. I dunno, I may make a break for the city to hit up some actual bars if I can escape from my boss :p
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shouldn't be that hard to spot occrider, not many business travelers sport an iraqi beret
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It's a camoflauged beret when I'm in hostile territory ... |
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