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preview of Iraqi civil war...
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| malek |
the last events in Iraq are a mild reminder of the chaos and civil war that will erupt after the "power void" created by both the lack of a strong govt and occupation forces.
At the moment, it seems that Iraqis from all ethnic background want the US to get out... they seem unified. But in reality, they're far from it.
An old Arabic proverb:
Me against my brother
Me and my brother against my cousin
me, my brother and my cousin against the outsider. |
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| Epicurus |
Wow. I was just thinking of that proverb 5 minutes ago when I was reading the news on Iraq. Incredible! I don't remember it exactly like that though, but close enough:
Ana dod ibn 3ami.
Ana w ibn 3ami dod el gharib.
Translation:
Me against my cousin.
Me and my cousin against the foreigner.
Anyway, you're probably right :) All I have to say is 4 days till Bal en Blanc!!! Can't wait :)
And ya, the situation in Iraq sucks, and we all knew a civil war was inevitable under these circumstances. It's starting to look more and more like the Lebanese situation in the early to mid 1970s. Hopefully, It won't degenerate into that. Well, as long as Syria doesn't get involved that is :tongue3 j/k |
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| NYCTrancefan |
| quote: | Originally posted by Epicurus
Wow. I was just thinking of that proverb 5 minutes ago when I was reading the news on Iraq. Incredible! I don't remember it exactly like that though, but close enough:
Ana dod ibn 3ami.
Ana w ibn 3ami dod el gharib.
Translation:
Me against my cousin.
Me and my cousin against the foreigner.
Anyway, you're probably right :) All I have to say is 4 days till Bal en Blanc!!! Can't wait :)
And ya, the situation in Iraq sucks, and we all knew a civil war was inevitable under these circumstances. It's starting to look more and more like the Lebanese situation in the early to mid 1970s. Hopefully, It won't degenerate into that. Well, as long as Syria doesn't get involved that is :tongue3 j/k |
Many people talk about Vietman, etc, but I have always maintained that the situation is more closely linked to that of Lebanon. Despite what all the pundits may say the time has come to give Iraq to the Iraqis, not Chalabi, Barzani, or whoever the hell else spoke up the WMD theories to the idiotic administration in power right now in my country. I could have cared less about Iraq before this war for just the reasons before our eyes right now, there are reasons for dictators or quasi-dictators in the Mide East from Syria to Iran and the U.S. failed to recocgnize this fact. Let the Arab world be to live the way they deem fit, what is so hard about that concept is besides me. |
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| malek |
NYC you are right man...
you can't "pacify" a country and a region like that...
these people need to be educated and sent to school ( i am not saying they're not, but its not generalized). Local govts still can't afford it because they have to stockpile arms to be ready for a war against Israel (which are stockpiling too...) its like a mini-cold war over there.
The solution for these regions should be similar like what the Chinese did in the last century... strong central govt to get the country going, then relaxing slowly the rules so that the people have more freedoms... |
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| Cyrus King |
The situation in Iraq is going to worsen,its inevitable. June 30th and on will be a scary time in Iraq.
I blame the "liberators" for this "stability". |
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| St_Andrew |
| i actually think this is going to be a new vietnam, it seems like the real uprisings are starting now. and the bombing of the mosque was just ing stupid, now they will get even more people against them. |
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| igottaknow |
| I'd be satisfied if we installed a demo-tatorship in iraq. We should leave after they hold elections to pick their new dictator. :eyespop: Maybe in 30 years we can re-invade and do the whole thing over again. We have a saying in the USA... practice makes perfect. :haha: |
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| NYCTrancefan |
| quote: | Originally posted by malek
NYC you are right man...
you can't "pacify" a country and a region like that...
these people need to be educated and sent to school ( i am not saying they're not, but its not generalized). Local govts still can't afford it because they have to stockpile arms to be ready for a war against Israel (which are stockpiling too...) its like a mini-cold war over there.
The solution for these regions should be similar like what the Chinese did in the last century... strong central govt to get the country going, then relaxing slowly the rules so that the people have more freedoms... |
Sadly what happens with politicians is that once they have made a decision such as G.W.Bush invading Iraq there is little room to maneuver when the perverbial " hits the fan" The more I listen to the events in Iraq the more I no longer hear of a democratic, stable Iraq but the June 30th deadline and making the Iraqis feel that they have their country back, coincidence I think not.
I am having a hard time finding those who can even defend the war anymore, you hear that the U.S. has to save face, they can't back down from terrorists and its to make the Mid-East safer, sure it will. Were these the original reasons for the war, and U.S. troops now are fighting for Iraqi freedom when Iraqis are shooting RPG's at them throughout the towns of central and southern Iraq, go figure that one. Rumsfeld, Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz and Powell should all be tarred and feathered for gross stupidity in understanding that region of the world and their feelings towards America. How will A-10s, F-16s, Humvees and Bradley tanks going to change that hate. I just have to shake my head malek. |
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| Izzy |
Malek, i completely agree with you in that iraq needs a strong central government.
that is why i am happy america has toughened up lately and counter-attacking the lastest insurgents. The iraqi people need to be shown that they are dealing with a strong force who wants to put in a strong government (enforced by rigorous police force and national army). When the iraq governing council can be giving enough power to control all that is happening in its country then peace finally be started by using the methods you talked about such as education and demilitarization.
of course the concept of being powerful and strong at first in order to lose that same strength later requires a lot of trust, something that is sadly missing in that area. |
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| malek |
The problem now of imposing a strong govt is the constitution... it puts lots (too much) emphazise on minorities rights and what not. Instead, the constitution should push forward the concept of Iraqi nationality and appartenance which sadly, Saddam Hussein was apt to do (be it with fear and brutatlity).
Now you have 15 council members with rotating power to represent the three main ethnic groups. A Mickey Mouse show if you ask me. |
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by malek
The problem now of imposing a strong govt is the constitution... it puts lots (too much) emphazise on minorities rights and what not. Instead, the constitution should push forward the concept of Iraqi nationality and appartenance which sadly, Saddam Hussein was apt to do (be it with fear and brutatlity). |
Fascism, YEAH! thats the answer! |
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| Dj_Irish |
In a swedish newspaper this morning there where a couple of quoutes by the swedish professor in islamology Jan Hjärpe.
He said that the latest insurgency, instigated by Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, wasn't first and foremost aimed at the occupying forces or the U.S. but at the rest of the Shiite leadship. He wanted to let them and the people know that he's the one that making things happen, he's the one in control and he has more power than is generally believed.
Remember al-Sadr is very young compared to the other Shiite leaders and hasn't really been considered a "major player" in the shiite-movement and thus not getting the repsect he thinks he deserve.
So not only is there problems between the various groups in Iraq, the groups seems to be ridden in conflicts internally as well. |
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