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My Theory On XTC (pg. 2)
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| dj_cuba |
| quote: | Originally posted by TeKnoHe@d2025
On that recent Peter Jennings report about MDMA they stated that in a German study they discovered that it's only about a 5% seretonin loss, which is replenished after 2-3 months of not using. |
It was a good documentary. That part about how one pill can give you Parkinsons Disease is total bollocks! There's no link between XTC use and Parkinsons whatsoever. |
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| dpaht |
| Does anyone know if preloading with 5-htp... taking a couple of pills before rolling makes the affect of the ecstasy more intense? It seems like it would make sense... more seratonin for the ecstasy to release. |
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| UglyDave |
| quote: | Originally posted by SpecialEd
It doesn't necessarally fix your damaged serotonin axons after using ecstasy, but just replenishs your serotonin.
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Because the axons don't react as fast as they used to prior to ecstasy usage. Overtime they fix themselves and stuff. |
..a lot of big words in there..
but i understand each and every one of them!!!
bar:
axons
axons??
explain?
i love the way everyone calls it XTC in this thraed.
that's just soooo 1994 :) |
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| UglyDave |
| quote: | Originally posted by dpaht
Does anyone know if preloading with 5-htp... taking a couple of pills before rolling makes the affect of the ecstasy more intense? It seems like it would make sense... more seratonin for the ecstasy to release. |
i've not been able to get my hands on any 5-htp (havn't tried either)
but yeah, i've always wondered. |
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| Lephaid |
| quote: | Originally posted by UglyDave
i've not been able to get my hands on any 5-htp (havn't tried either)
but yeah, i've always wondered. |
It'd probably make it less intense, because your brain would be desensitized from the excess serotonin.
Aside from that, 5-HTP doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier well at all, making it not greatly effective for the pre/post-loading reasons that people often take it for. Far more effective is the chemical l-tryptophan, which is banned by the FDA in the US, but is available widely in the UK. |
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| Heinz |
| quote: | Originally posted by Boomer187
its also theorised to be bad since it does artificially increase seretonin, the body will naturally stop making it. Which is the problem with a lot of drugs when you take them a lot. If it is getting its supply from somewhere, it will stop making it to save energy.
But I a, guessing the normal flucuations in seretonin levels could not cause a bad mood tooccur after a good mood. Since a drug is giving you the seretonin, the body adjusts its levels to it, once it stops your body is still at those levels, but when it is naturally producing it, it can stay at thsoe levels or slowly fall, then rise, or slowly fall way down....
there are also a few other neurotransmitters that put you in a good mood, but don't completely understand them all. So it could be another one having effects on us...who knows. |
thats why cociane and herione are so addictive. the body stops making the natural chemicals, b/c there is an overload of it. body says, woah, theres too much of this stuff, cut back on the production or stop it. then when u run out of the chem. (wears off), your body needs that chemical to function, therefore, u get the urge to go out and replentish this substance, and u take another "hit".
i heard dis from da hood:p |
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| dj_mdma |
ok as a pharmacologist and medic student here is my take on everything
MDMA causes the release of Seratonin from seratonergic neurones in the brain. it acts on the storage vesicles and induces release.
MDMA does not act on the reuptake mechanisms (which are naturally in place to break down seratonin and take it back up into the nerve where it can be restored) Anti-Depressant drugs such as SSRI's and TCA inhibitors block the reuptake of Seratonin (in the case of SSRI's) and Dopamine and Noradrenaline (for TCA drugs) These drugs DO NOT cause the release of these neurotransmitters, they merely stop them from breaking down the released neurotransmitter. What these drugs do is slowly increase the background level of seratonin/dopamine/noradrenaline.
The way they work is complex. To this day is not 100% confirmed how they cause the relief of depression. There is numerous evidence pointing towards the "rewiring" of the neurotransmitter systems, and that is why it take 4-6 weeks for antidepressants to take effect, with more seratonergic receptors being formed.
I think that with continued E usage, this will happen to a user, and they experience tolerance. i do not believe that it is to do with lack of seratonin in the body. The body can recover from tolerance, as the excess receptors will be degraded over time and you need less E to get the same high. of course this is a long process.
On the subject of preloading.
5htp does not cross the brain barrier very easily. even when it has crossed into the brain barrier, there is still a rate limiting enzyme that converts the 5htp into 5ht which is (I think) 5HTPase or something like that. To help the 5htp cross the BBB, you should take it with grapefruit juice, as there is an carrier enzyme that will easily pass through. If you have more 5htp present in the brain, then you know that the 5HTPase will be busy, and will have more chance of converting it into 5ht.
Also, if there is more 5ht present when you take an E, it means that even though you get a massive release, there is always a 5HT molecule to occupy a 5HT receptor. remember that 5HT is still undergoing a reuptake process. The 5ht that has been released by the mdma doesn't just linger around in the nerve terminal! anyway, as i was saying, if there is lots of 5ht floating around the nerve terminal, then as a 5ht that has occupied a 5ht receptor is degraded, then there will be another one to take its place. and if you have lots more waiting to take its place, then the high will last longer.
On the subject of comedowns, the massive release of 5ht means that after the initial high and everything has been degraded, the vesicles that store the 5ht are at low levels, and when you need the release of 5ht for normal eveyday life, there is not enough and you feel depressed. however, i do believe that there is a psychological element in comedown. 5HT will still be floating around in the system (as not all of it is broken down or has undergone reuptake), but no more is being released. The presence of 5ht will still have a "happy" effect, you just don't feel happier. its quite difficult to explain via typing!
:) |
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| UglyDave |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lephaid
It'd probably make it less intense, because your brain would be desensitized from the excess serotonin.
Aside from that, 5-HTP doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier well at all, making it not greatly effective for the pre/post-loading reasons that people often take it for. Far more effective is the chemical l-tryptophan, which is banned by the FDA in the US, but is available widely in the UK. |
god dammit man u really do know your :) |
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| dj_cuba |
| quote: | Originally posted by dj_mdma
ok as a pharmacologist and medic student here is my take on everything
MDMA causes the release of Seratonin from seratonergic neurones in the brain. it acts on the storage vesicles and induces release.
MDMA does not act on the reuptake mechanisms (which are naturally in place to break down seratonin and take it back up into the nerve where it can be restored) Anti-Depressant drugs such as SSRI's and TCA inhibitors block the reuptake of Seratonin (in the case of SSRI's) and Dopamine and Noradrenaline (for TCA drugs) These drugs DO NOT cause the release of these neurotransmitters, they merely stop them from breaking down the released neurotransmitter. What these drugs do is slowly increase the background level of seratonin/dopamine/noradrenaline.
The way they work is complex. To this day is not 100% confirmed how they cause the relief of depression. There is numerous evidence pointing towards the "rewiring" of the neurotransmitter systems, and that is why it take 4-6 weeks for antidepressants to take effect, with more seratonergic receptors being formed.
I think that with continued E usage, this will happen to a user, and they experience tolerance. i do not believe that it is to do with lack of seratonin in the body. The body can recover from tolerance, as the excess receptors will be degraded over time and you need less E to get the same high. of course this is a long process.
On the subject of preloading.
5htp does not cross the brain barrier very easily. even when it has crossed into the brain barrier, there is still a rate limiting enzyme that converts the 5htp into 5ht which is (I think) 5HTPase or something like that. To help the 5htp cross the BBB, you should take it with grapefruit juice, as there is an carrier enzyme that will easily pass through. If you have more 5htp present in the brain, then you know that the 5HTPase will be busy, and will have more chance of converting it into 5ht.
Also, if there is more 5ht present when you take an E, it means that even though you get a massive release, there is always a 5HT molecule to occupy a 5HT receptor. remember that 5HT is still undergoing a reuptake process. The 5ht that has been released by the mdma doesn't just linger around in the nerve terminal! anyway, as i was saying, if there is lots of 5ht floating around the nerve terminal, then as a 5ht that has occupied a 5ht receptor is degraded, then there will be another one to take its place. and if you have lots more waiting to take its place, then the high will last longer.
On the subject of comedowns, the massive release of 5ht means that after the initial high and everything has been degraded, the vesicles that store the 5ht are at low levels, and when you need the release of 5ht for normal eveyday life, there is not enough and you feel depressed. however, i do believe that there is a psychological element in comedown. 5HT will still be floating around in the system (as not all of it is broken down or has undergone reuptake), but no more is being released. The presence of 5ht will still have a "happy" effect, you just don't feel happier. its quite difficult to explain via typing!
:) |
Thanks mate, that was an interesting read :) especially the part about taking grapefruit juice ;)
Iam going into town tomorrow to pick up some 5-HTP capsules, not for after-e purposes but to put me in a better mood genreally. I suffer from mild depression, nothing serious but by the sound of things these caspules will really help when Iam down. If I took them with some grapefruit juice do you think they would work, and if so what dosage would you reccomend? |
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| dj_mdma |
for normal usage, people usually take 1-2 a day.
Holland and Barrett sell 5HTP. its costs 14 pounds for 70 capsules, and its well worth it ;) |
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