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...That "professional" sound (pg. 4)
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| filoandperi |
hey man,
what are the details of your setup?
ill be honest with you, esp with music today, its not all about the setup! You got guys like envio, octagen, nickson, etc doing it all in the computer and they are making hit tunes! so theres proof that you do not need lotta gear to make it happen.
it took me like 2 yrs or so before i really understoood all the things that go into making a mixdown sound as good as our's do. these days bo and i sit in the studio and we have a very good idea of what the mixdown will sound like outside of the studio environment. that only comes with alot of trial and error and really understanding how your room and monitors sound as well as the basic mechanics of mixing music which are dynamics and effects.
i read lotta the tips on this thread and they are pretty accurate!
being able to breathe that 3rd dimension into the sound requires hundreds of hours of mixing stuff down.
another thing that is important to know is that you are using your gear properly and using the right gear. lotta people have tons of gear and do not know how to use it to its fullest potential.
send me some details of the gear and i can tell u .. what might be overkill or what might be really useful.
i saw some people mentioning panning in tracks..
here is a general breakdown for us that we might use on a track
kick -- dead middle
bass -- dead middle
hi hats panned hard left and right
pads -- panned 75% left and right
pads 2 -- panned hard left and right
leads -- usually centered with effects on the left and right
or vice versa
also another thing people are talkin about alot is eqing
the things which are most important to worry about esp at the early stages is too much bass on pads and leads and too much highs and mids on basses.. things like that.. a lead should be a lead not have lotta bass! or a pad same thing. if u have a pad that is bringing tons of bass into the mix -- u want to remove it.. it will effect the bass and the kick! these are the kind of things you should worry about. bringing out say 5hz in a synth to give it that effervescent feel is stuff you worry about later on.
compression
kick and bass are usually compressed! drum kit u can compress too! but you do not have too!
leads and pads are compressed
but be careful u dont overcompress because u can take the life out of the track!
hopefully some of these tips help
-dom |
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| marco.V |
| quote: | Originally posted by filoandperi
hey man,
what are the details of your setup?
ill be honest with you, esp with music today, its not all about the setup! You got guys like envio, octagen, nickson, etc doing it all in the computer and they are making hit tunes! so theres proof that you do not need lotta gear to make it happen.
it took me like 2 yrs or so before i really understoood all the things that go into making a mixdown sound as good as our's do. these days bo and i sit in the studio and we have a very good idea of what the mixdown will sound like outside of the studio environment. that only comes with alot of trial and error and really understanding how your room and monitors sound as well as the basic mechanics of mixing music which are dynamics and effects.
i read lotta the tips on this thread and they are pretty accurate!
being able to breathe that 3rd dimension into the sound requires hundreds of hours of mixing stuff down.
another thing that is important to know is that you are using your gear properly and using the right gear. lotta people have tons of gear and do not know how to use it to its fullest potential.
send me some details of the gear and i can tell u .. what might be overkill or what might be really useful.
i saw some people mentioning panning in tracks..
here is a general breakdown for us that we might use on a track
kick -- dead middle
bass -- dead middle
hi hats panned hard left and right
pads -- panned 75% left and right
pads 2 -- panned hard left and right
leads -- usually centered with effects on the left and right
or vice versa
also another thing people are talkin about alot is eqing
the things which are most important to worry about esp at the early stages is too much bass on pads and leads and too much highs and mids on basses.. things like that.. a lead should be a lead not have lotta bass! or a pad same thing. if u have a pad that is bringing tons of bass into the mix -- u want to remove it.. it will effect the bass and the kick! these are the kind of things you should worry about. bringing out say 5hz in a synth to give it that effervescent feel is stuff you worry about later on.
compression
kick and bass are usually compressed! drum kit u can compress too! but you do not have too!
leads and pads are compressed
but be careful u dont overcompress because u can take the life out of the track!
hopefully some of these tips help
-dom
-dom |
nice post!! thk you guys for the tips. I think your method for panning will be really useful for me ;) |
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| AaroNoct |
I have a lot of experience mixing outside of the trance genre. It all comes down to this in any style of music:
Vision -> Execution -> Arrangement
Arrangement, in the technical realm, is the single most important thing. Everything about getting a certain sound is within how you arrange your track. You could EQ, compress, or get up and walk around your chair for luck. If it's not arranged correctly with the proper layers and the perfect timing, it will not sound right. If you're at this level you should understand how to properly record and track. Although this could be a major problem for a lot of people. Even that won't ruin a dead on arrangement within reason. Everything else is icing. No formula will help you.
You'll always hear guys saying "well I can't get my bass to sound good, so let me eq the out of it". Wrong answer. Adjust your technique, how you're recording it and get the sound right to start with. Don't abuse EQ, compression, or reverb. For god sake we're using synths...with envelopes, ADSR, that's compression right there if you break it down and think about it. I guess it depends what sound you're after. I guess I'm just a bit of an audiophile. Compression to me is taming a completely out of control signal. Like a real bass guitar, or a real acoustic source. Synths are in control from the beginning. That's the entire nature of a synth.
Everyone has different theories and approaches. It's about developing yours. |
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| X-Multiply |
| quote: | Originally posted by alanzo
ok, it might not be common practice to do this.. but it sure saves on CPU..
I use Cubase SX 2.0 - When i'm done with the mix I freeze all of the VSTis and then add FX - if I add FX while mixing or without freezing the insturments the program lags like a basterd even on my 2.8Ghz system..
so perhaps this would be more of an amateur solution to the problem then.. since most of us dont have $$ to put in to multiple PCs to spread out the CPU load.. |
alanzo when you say multiple PCs to spread out the CPU load, is this something Cubase SX 2 can do? Similar to 3DSMax and building a render farm on multiple computers to handle the load? I use Cubase SX 2 and have multiple PCs, some that are just sitting there and if this could be done, I'd love to do it. |
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| Sean Walsh |
| Definitely nice to hear some tips from pros; thanks Filo & Peri =) |
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| Vizay |
| quote: | Originally posted by X-Multiply
alanzo when you say multiple PCs to spread out the CPU load, is this something Cubase SX 2 can do? Similar to 3DSMax and building a render farm on multiple computers to handle the load? I use Cubase SX 2 and have multiple PCs, some that are just sitting there and if this could be done, I'd love to do it. |
it's called system link or something like that :)
haven't tried it myself but I've heard that it's pretty effective. |
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| filoandperi |
I have a lot of experience mixing outside of the trance genre. It all comes down to this in any style of music:
Vision -> Execution -> Arrangement
Arrangement, in the technical realm, is the single most important thing. Everything about getting a certain sound is within how you arrange your track. You could EQ, compress, or get up and walk around your chair for luck. If it's not arranged correctly with the proper layers and the perfect timing, it will not sound right. If you're at this level you should understand how to properly record and track. Although this could be a major problem for a lot of people. Even that won't ruin a dead on arrangement within reason. Everything else is icing. No formula will help you.
You'll always hear guys saying "well I can't get my bass to sound good, so let me eq the out of it". Wrong answer. Adjust your technique, how you're recording it and get the sound right to start with. Don't abuse EQ, compression, or reverb. For god sake we're using synths...with envelopes, ADSR, that's compression right there if you break it down and think about it. I guess it depends what sound you're after. I guess I'm just a bit of an audiophile. Compression to me is taming a completely out of control signal. Like a real bass guitar, or a real acoustic source. Synths are in control from the beginning. That's the entire nature of a synth.
Everyone has different theories and approaches. It's about developing yours.:
Very well spoken Aaronoct -- you hit that angle of music production on the nose! This is the second part of making good music. Once you understand all the mechanics than there is this more creative and abstract side! Although I disagree with you on the compression of synths because there are tons of pads that come stock out of a synth with levels jumping all over the place! So they need compression! But generally in the mix--- you really want to compress a lead synth a little because sometimes due to the nature of synths the lead is not always volume equal or even basses for example.. you might notice that a bass sound has alot more thump and rumble on one note and less on another! this happens all too often with certain bass sounds. you really want to level them out as much as possible!
-dom |
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| Etherium |
| quote: | | you really want to compress a lead synth a little because sometimes due to the nature of synths the lead is not always volume equal |
For instance, say you have a lead that has velocity controlled resonance or filter on the patch, when you plunk down hard a couple of notes in an 8 bar riff, this could clip. Solution: Compression. Now you are taming those couple of notes and bringing the level of the rest of them up.
Mint. |
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| X-Multiply |
| quote: | Originally posted by Vizay
it's called system link or something like that :)
haven't tried it myself but I've heard that it's pretty effective. |
Thanks Vizay for the info! I looked in the Cubase manual and there is a whole chapter about this. Looks like I have everything except an audio card on the 2nd computer that has digital inputs and outputs. Only my main PC has those so all I would really need to buy is a soundcard with digital inputs and outputs and 2 digital audio cables. I'm not even really maxing out my first PC but just hearing about the linking capabilities makes me want to mess around with it just to see what its like. |
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| djstormrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by AaroNoct
Arrangement, in the technical realm, is the single most important thing. Everything about getting a certain sound is within how you arrange your track. |
So, how to make a good arrngement? |
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| xls |
| quote: | Originally posted by djstormrider
So, how to make a good arrngement? |
That's the golden question! It's difficult to answer, there's not really any hard & fast rules (well, with the exception of DJ mix in & out points). There are formulas, (like certain amounts of time to build up to a breakdown, certain amounts of time for breakdowns, big build, main part of song, etc...) but if the arrangement is too generic, it doesn't matter how good the hook or production quality is, it won't stand out. But if you make it too eratic, it will sound awkward. It should just sound natural. Try different things - but if something sounds like it's forced, try something else. |
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| BetaFactory |
I have only learnt the basics of EQ by experimenting by my own, and I have a question for you:
Lets take the kick drum and the bass drum. I guess these can occupy the same frequencies as long as they do not "cover" each other? But what with moving basslines that cover the whole pattern, and thus also covering all the kick drum notes? I've never really thought of EQ:ing when it comes to kicks vs. bass, I've only EQ:ed away sub frequencies from leads, pads, effects etc.
Do you make basslines and leads completely differ when it comes to frequencies, I mean, do you keep the lead away from the whole frequency spectrum which is occupied by the bass? Wouldn't that make the lead sound a bit thin??
Good equalizing seems to be one of the key mysteries when it comes to music making. |
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