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Minorities want race stats only when it benifits them (pg. 6)
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| starsearcher |
| quote: | I agree with you though, people are too hung up on this sort of thing. I am not one of them. I hope you realize the point i was making there.
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And that is true...there always and always will be... |
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| Arcticboy |
Fair enough Jayx1, I get the point and can see why you wanted to make it. But I'm not the right guy to direct that to. I'm not one of the type of immigrants who jumps up and screams racism everytime something doesn't go my way. And I would not have complained if someone referred to me using a term I used to describe myself. If anything, I think political correctness beyond a certain point actually hurts more than it helps. For instance, I think not pointing out differences among races or sexes is more wrong than doing so. If you don't acknowledge the differences, it's as though you are saying ther's something wrong with having those different features.
Anyway, as previously mentioned, I myself do agree that "affirmative action" is reverse racism and that Canada's Christian and English\French tradition should be preserved. And I agree with the original point of your thread that if minority children are breaking the rules more and hence getting kicked out of school, well too bad. (I don't know if the "zero tolerance" is such a good idea, but I agree that its overall effect should be the issue and not how many kids of what race are getting kicked out, unless there is concern that non-minority children who are also breaking the rules are being allowed to get away with it....)
By the way, I regularly point out to other Iranians or immigrants of other races who complain about racism, etc. that they should keep their expectations in context and realize the racist attitudes they have themselves. But the overall point is not to compare white people being racist versus non-white people being racist. The overall issue is that we should make sure that the SYSTEM is not racist. You can never get into people's heads and control their thoughts, but if we can at least make it unacceptable to be systematically racist, the people will change with time.
By the way, LOL, I AM white. I'm Persian, from the Arian race, and meet the definition of "white". HaHa, bet you most people don't know that Persians were originally from the same Arian race half of which went to Europe 5000 years ago. All that boring history shoved down my throat as a kid comes in handy after all, LOL. |
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| Jayx1 |
| I dont believe in races, i believe in cultures. We have very distinct cultures around the world. For example Saddam looks like he could very well be an old italian grandfather. Race is irrelevant. I wish the government and society would understand this and scrap affirmative action among other things. |
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| DigiNut |
It's truly sad how many people still cling to the backwards ideals of multiculturalism and affirmative action.
The problem isn't that minorities (who are now basically majorities in this ethnically-saturated country) don't have the right opportunities, it's that they don't take them. And the reason they don't take them is (surprise surprise!) because they know they don't have to, because they'll get special treatment based on their minority status. There is also the fact that they have this nonsensical rhetoric driven into their heads day after day and eventually start to wallow in self-pity instead of being pro-active, convincing themselves psychologically that they can never amount to anything because of their race. Multiculturalist/equality policies are what cause racial groups to segregate themselves, identify with stereotypes, and become the "disadvantaged" groups that they are.
The negative effect of multiculturalism (not of immigration per se, but specifically the legally-enforcable "diversity" policies) on society has been proven again and again, which is the reason why a few European countries have been considering literally deporting their immigrants and immigrant families. But for some reason, the majority of Canadians still refuse to believe it. It's exasperating to talk to people who actually believe that the system here is against women and racial or ethnic minorities, people who actually believe that racism and/or sexism still exist in forms that can actually do any harm to them.
Individualism AKA "colour-blindness" is what we want. Equality is NOT the same thing, it is very nearly the opposite. Say it with me now folks, Individualism, not Equality. There is absolutely no sense whatsoever in forcing the population of each individual workplace or university to have the same statistical breakdown as the overall population of Canada. For those of you still spouting this gibberish, just exactly what is your rationale for it?
Hope I'm not the only one that's fed up with this nonsense. I whole-heartedly agree with the initial article. |
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| disko-kandi |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
It's truly sad how many people still cling to the backwards ideals of multiculturalism and affirmative action.
The problem isn't that minorities (who are now basically majorities in this ethnically-saturated country) don't have the right opportunities, it's that they don't take them. And the reason they don't take them is (surprise surprise!) because they know they don't have to, because they'll get special treatment based on their minority status. There is also the fact that they have this nonsensical rhetoric driven into their heads day after day and eventually start to wallow in self-pity instead of being pro-active, convincing themselves psychologically that they can never amount to anything because of their race. Multiculturalist/equality policies are what cause racial groups to segregate themselves, identify with stereotypes, and become the "disadvantaged" groups that they are.
The negative effect of multiculturalism (not of immigration per se, but specifically the legally-enforcable "diversity" policies) on society has been proven again and again, which is the reason why a few European countries have been considering literally deporting their immigrants and immigrant families. But for some reason, the majority of Canadians still refuse to believe it. It's exasperating to talk to people who actually believe that the system here is against women and racial or ethnic minorities, people who actually believe that racism and/or sexism still exist in forms that can actually do any harm to them.
Individualism AKA "colour-blindness" is what we want. Equality is NOT the same thing, it is very nearly the opposite. Say it with me now folks, Individualism, not Equality. There is absolutely no sense whatsoever in forcing the population of each individual workplace or university to have the same statistical breakdown as the overall population of Canada. For those of you still spouting this gibberish, just exactly what is your rationale for it?
Hope I'm not the only one that's fed up with this nonsense. I whole-heartedly agree with the initial article. |
YES! they know they don't have to, because they'll get special treatment based on their minority status > also, a huge problem in Germany!!
very good! - same goes for the rest of your argument! i couldn't have said it better! ;) |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by disko-kandi
YES! they know they don't have to, because they'll get special treatment based on their minority status > also, a huge problem in Germany!!
very good! - same goes for the rest of your argument! i couldn't have said it better! ;) |
Wait, you agree with me? This is a historic moment! Just excuse me for a minute while I scratch my head trying to figure out what happened. :p |
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| disko-kandi |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Wait, you agree with me? This is a historic moment! Just excuse me for a minute while I scratch my head trying to figure out what happened. :p |
pffffttt!! LOL!! count yourself lucky my friend! :p |
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| disko-kandi |
Something to think about .... :)
Globe and Mail
Dreams do come true:
20 years ago, a little girl in Somalia wanted to become a doctor when she grew up. Yesterday, Fahima Osman became the first Canadian-trained MD of the country's largest African community
By ERIN ANDERSSEN
Saturday, May 15, 2004 - Page A1
When Fahima Osman was 6, she vowed to her mother that she would become a doctor.
"God willing," her mother had answered, "you will be." It was, then,
the wide-eyed boast of a little girl, who did not know that her family would end up fleeing to a new country as Somali refugees five years later, spending their last penny on the trip, abandoning their every possession, but for a few bags and a framed wedding picture.
But the dream held -- through all-night study sessions squeezed between part-time jobs to help pay the bills, against the high-school teachers who doubted her, even when she looked around and realized that she would be the first.
For 20 years, the dream held.
Yesterday, with her parents and cousins and eight siblings watching
from the audience at Hamilton Place, Fahima Osman stood with her classmates from McMaster University in Hamilton, Ont., and recited the words of the Hippocratic oath to make it official: she is now the first Canadian-trained doctor of the country's largest African community.
"She is famous," said Abdi Osman, a program co-ordinator at Dixon
Community Services in Toronto, which serves mainly Somali newcomers.
Mr. Osman (no relation) calls Dr. Osman "a role model for the youth" of a refugee community that is still young and struggling, with an average adult income of about $15,000, according to the 2001 census. In the past decade, Somali Torontonians have formed outreach associations, started restaurants, celebrated the first wave of university graduates. But they have gone without a doctor who could speak to them in their own language, who understood their predominantly Muslim culture -- until now.
"We congratulate her with our hearts. It is a great thing, to turn a
refugee into a doctor. It is practical evidence that whoever wants to
achieve the highest positions in this country can do so."
In July, Dr. Osman begins her residency in general surgery at the
Toronto General Hospital.
The residency is a five-year program for which, in true character, she had already begun studying, even before she had written her final seven-hour exam for medical school on Tuesday. "I have to look at it as a journey,'' she said. "I am just finishing one part, and looking forward to the next part."
And planning, always planning, how she will make her mark -- both in
Canada, the country that welcomed her family, and in Somalia, where the people so desperately need her skills.
Since The Globe and Mail profiled Dr. Osman last June as part of the
New Canada series, her story has been told and retold on Somali websites around the world. She once Googled her name, on a lark, and was shocked by the dozens of sites that bounced back with the details of her life -- how her father, Adam, scrimped and saved his way out of the desert, and found work in the United Arab Emirates; how the young family came to Canada after his job ended because they could not go home to civil war; how the nine Osman children were told, no matter how tight the budget, they were expected to get a "brand-name'' education. And setting the course, as the eldest,
was Dr. Osman, with her relentless work ethic, and compassion.
"I am feeling fantastic," her father said of her graduation. "Her title is now Dr. Osman. It is a long way to come."
"It is a dream, finally," sighed her mother, Zahra, who first pulled
the bulging McMaster envelope from the mailbox, under the noonday sun on June 4, 2000. She has gotten used to being introduced around the city as Dr. Osman's mother.
When she was first interviewed last year, Dr. Osman expressed her
disappointment with not being able to find a mentor; she was promptly
contacted by Andy Smith, the head of general surgery at Sunnybrook and Women's Hospital, who has become a close adviser. "I was struck by her dynamism and focus," Dr. Smith said. "In many ways, she is emblematic of all that is right in this country.'' Flooded by e-mail, she is currently in regular contact with about 75 young immigrants, many of Somali origin, who are hoping to follow her path into medical school. She typically spends one day of each weekend, just responding to e-mail. Their questions, she says, sound so much like the ones she had when she was first trying to get in.
"When you see the competition, you feel so hopeless, you just want to give up," she recalls. "I wanted to show them that I am just an average girl, I worked hard and I got in."
But what really got Dr. Osman thinking was a letter she received from her 10-year-old cousin back in Somalia, who told her that he would also like to be a doctor some day. "The thing is," she says, "it is impossible for him,really. There are no medical schools there." So Dr. Osman plans to split up her residency with a year-long masters degree in medical education or a related program so that she can work at a teaching hospital, and share her knowledge during regular stints back in Somalia.
She has a new dream now: that some day, she might see the opening of
Somalia's first medical school. |
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| Dj Smitty20 |
I find myself in full agreeance with DigniNut's post....hey, now we actually think alike on something. This is where my conservative side comes out...but of course, certain people in this thread call it "racism and ignorance."
I find it funny that ArcticBoy just glazed over my comments about how the common Arabic view (at least from what I've seen in my experience) on Canadian society and values is purely disrespectful. I know this doesn't apply to all Arabs in Canada, but I see it first hand way too much. I'm sorry, but the way Arab women are treated is in direct conflict with our laws. How is it NOT racist when an arab guy tells me my society is , we have no family values, our women are all whores and that they should be good like Arab girls? It's ing ridiculous. People can come here all they want...and although we TOLERATE (key word here) your religions and customs, they should never (and hopefully WILL never) supercede the laws and customs that led to the formation of this country. I'm not even religious, but I say it's just too ing bad that much of Canada's past is rooted in Christianity.
Multicultarism doesn't mean sweeping out the old in favour of the new...it means acceptance and toleration, but far too many immigrants I know don't think that is enough. On the other hand, I've met quite a few people who are just happy to be here and respect this country's past and traditions. I don't have too much of problem with welcoming hard working people to this nation, but the building blocks of this country (yes, including the monarchy) should be protected at all costs. Sure, it's a British institution, but the lion's share of Canada's identity lies with Britain.
Anyway, this is getting too long...but about OSAP. I'm lucky that I have a good enough job to get through university without needing loans. But I was sweating it there in first year big time...and I almost had a heart attack when they estimated me at ZERO. If my friend's leech family is getting government money for just about everything, then I should bloody well be able to get a loan for school. Does anybody remember a university survey that asked your ethnicity before starting first year? What the hell is that? I thought university acceptance is gained on marks alone...I guess not.:rolleyes: |
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| Arcticboy |
See, I knew it was a hopeless cause trying to help you see your ignorance, but people can't say I didn't try.
Why don't you go back and read my post again, all your issues were acknowledged and answered. Either you just don't get it, or you choose not to.
This is why I didn't want to "debate" your points initially, it was clear from your post that this was going to be the result. I still don't regret giving you the benefit of the doubt, once.
Ah well, C'est la vie. |
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| disko-kandi |
| hey! fine u guys. go over my head! LOL! ...i'll post more later. i gotta go and chill. this is way to stressful for a beautiful sat. nite. :) |
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| Dj Smitty20 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Arcticboy
See, I knew it was a hopeless cause trying to help you see your ignorance, but people can't say I didn't try.
Why don't you go back and read my post again, all your issues were acknowledged and answered. Either you just don't get it, or you choose not to.
This is why I didn't want to "debate" your points initially, it was clear from your post that this was going to be the result. I still don't regret giving you the benefit of the doubt, once.
Ah well, C'est la vie. |
so we obviously disagree on what exactly multicultarism is. Just because you DISAGREE with me doesn't make me ignorant. I will probably never vote Conservative, but according to your logic, they are all ignorant because they want to lessen immigration? :rolleyes: |
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