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My rant about musical talent!!
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| Digi-flection |
I know this has been discussed by some already, but what the hell, let's beat this dead horse some more!!!
Talent in music, IMHO, is a person's raw ability to create music (playing an instrument, composing, singing). A person with little talent can still create, but it will never be anything substantial, masterful, or worth remembering. But when you give the same task to someone who is truly talented, they'll "knock it out of the park".
I'll take two of our most controversial artists on our boards as of late, Tiesto and Britney Spears (BS) to prove my point.
BS, if you strip away all of the razmatazz and just look at the music, and ONLY the music, she is an absolute phoney. Some have argued that to sell a million records, you must have some musical skills. Well that puts William Hung in the same league by that standard, but at least he admits that he sucks. Why is it that she's always lip-synching?!?!?!? Because she can't sing in tune - singing in tune is a BASIC element of creating music in our society. Why do you think they had to dub over Mavie's performance on the Tiesto in Concert DVD. Cuz singing out of tune sounds like ASS!
As far as Tiesto, I think a big beef that people have with him is that we've all have had glimpses of his talent but he is somewhat inconsistent as of late, especially as a DJ. And whether you hate him or not, he does have talent. And yes he was talented before he was voted No.1.
Do not confuse talent and success. Talent is not a million records or the No.1 spot in a poll. It is not re-invention every other month and it is definitely not interest.
My rant is done. Feel free to debate and please remember to respect one another's opinions (even if they lick ass).
-Subito |
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| Floorfiller |
i hate britney spears, but you can't blame the bitch for lipsyncing...they got her dancing all over that stage. its one thing to sing while standing still...its another thing to sing while you're running around all over the place.
as for tiesto...i won't argue again...but lets just say i don't consider him as talented as say Way Out West or Bedrock. |
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| Tranc3 |
| Another important point to consider is that Tiesto actually knows how to produce, whereas Britney is merely a vocalist, and not a terribly great one at that. |
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| Digi-flection |
Agreed Floorfiller! WOW is pretty amazing. As for BS, I've seen her in numerous TV spots, and she has NEVER sung live even when she's not moving. I remember she tried singing live a couple of years back on TV and it made me wish that they had her lip-synching.
BS = 0 musical talent
-Digi-flection |
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| Tranc3 |
| Hehe that's funny. Britney Spears' abbreviatted name = BS. |
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| TranzAddict |
| quote: | Originally posted by Digi-flection
Agreed Floorfiller! WOW is pretty amazing. As for BS, I've seen her in numerous TV spots, and she has NEVER sung live even when she's not moving. I remember she tried singing live a couple of years back on TV and it made me wish that they had her lip-synching.
BS = 0 musical talent
-Digi-flection |
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| DJ-Dank-Poo |
"The way I look at it is like being a filter. The music exists in the
universe, and if you're lucky enough, or strong enough, to get your ego out of the way, the music comes through you."
"Music is a spiritual expression of what's in your heart. Music as a
way of getting rich is a pretty new thing, and I often wonder if the
mega-bucks glitzy atmosphere is making the quality of music suffer.
You have to work really hard to get around that and remember why you're in it in the first place: because you have to be. It's like an
addiction. You can't go a day without picking up your guitar. To me, the only commercial goals that are really valid are, 'Boy, I wish I didn't have to go to work. I wish I could do this all the time.' "
-Trey Anastasio of Phish
...can't really say it any better. most of these pop stars (BS) can't get the ego out of the way. to people these days its all about being sexy and rich and selling a platinum record etc etc...
it doesn't matter what you play or sing or spin, its why you are there that is important. if there were no money in the business and being a musician/singer/DJ was the lowest form of life on the planet, how many of these "stars" would still be in it? |
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| Dmatrox |
Tiesto is definately a talented producer and dj, but yea as of late, hes been unquality (is day a word?). Hes playing too much of his crap from his new album.
btw, WB's Superstar USA, one funny show :p yet so horrible to listen to :nervous: |
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| aspergian |
Digi-flection: Hahaha... your first sentence has me chuckling a lot. It's a good opener, and yes, now the horse has returned to life as a ZOMBIE and we're still beating it.
I do not agree with all your points but I thank you and my respects to you for backing up your points with why you believe what you believe.
I think the whole thing of "talent" in singular form obviously must be combined with other components in order to form a complete package in the music business. It is no surprise to me that both Tiesto and Britney need heavy marketing push, as well as glossy shots of them in action and numerous other tactics. I regard it as an AND situation as opposed to an OR situation, i.e. "you need this and that and that..."
Of note, there are many electronic musicians who cannot really "play an instrument" in the realtime, traditional sense of the word but they are definitely masterful programmers. Yet, the old guard regards this as *not* being musical talent. So it's relative, and you get perspectives.
It's difficult to define "talent", as a masterful star from the Peking Opera would definitely be called "out of tune" and "sings like a cat being strangled" here. (William Hung is laughed at in part because of cultural differences. I just hope he's happy with himself.) And yet, over there, it is an honorable, theatrical artform. Bollywood movies seem "wacky" and "a forced mix of styles" to Western audiences. There are cultural sensitivities and differences. Obviously the Japanese have their IDORU worship without so much derision as over here, and the Swedish have contributed an immense lot to pop music over the years. I am always grateful to see what things are like on the other side of the world, especially poor countries who do not have any Britneys and must make do with folk troubadours who are native masters of their craft nonetheless. People's tastes change. At times, it's difficult to say what will succeed in the market, and at others, people miss the obvious. That's life on Planet Earth.
Also, consider the live show. Often, you need visuals -- even many DJ performances will attest to this. An energetic crowd, perhaps featured dancers, lasers, trippy visuals, etc. It takes talent for those too. And if the performer is moving about and dancing, as Britney does, well, that's another sort of artistic talent. As well as the many people who help put the show on by designing costumes, setting up the gear, all the tech's who are consulted... there are many types of creative talent important to the music business, and the music cannot stand alone, just like a musician without listeners is not communicating.
People on the whole are not as impressed with classical and jazz virtuosos as they were in previous decades -- album sales confirm a declining market share -- and they are among the most talented of ALL. So YES, along the lines of what you said, talent and success are not the same thing. An artist can have "da maddest skillz" and be broke and suffering. Many historical precedents of this. However, I appreciate it when talented artists have success. Tiesto's friend, BT is also a fine, fine example of this.
There are so many luxurious choices of music for us to choose from. It truly is a smorgasbord of sounds and a grand buffet. I am reminded to be grateful of this many times, especially when I think of less fortunate places in the world that do not have such prominent Internet access, nor iPods or other MP3 players, nor even some basic essentials required for living like clean water and nutritious food.
We have so much to be thankful for -- the music you don't like, you can just move on, and leave it for someone else. |
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| Zombie0729 |
| don't flame on me for throwing this in the air but... in reality how many vocalists in the dance genre are much better? I'm not saying they aren't by any means but DJ's and Producers in dance music are the absolute kings of editing and manipulating sounds. Don't you ever feel like what ever comes out on CD sounds nothing like what the actual person would sound like live? Editing techniques have gotten so good, i often wonder if they could make anyone sound "good". |
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| aspergian |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zombie0729
don't flame on me for throwing this in the air but... in reality how many vocalists in the dance genre are much better? I'm not saying they aren't by any means but DJ's and Producers in dance music are the absolute kings of editing and manipulating sounds. Don't you ever feel like what ever comes out on CD sounds nothing like what the actual person would sound like live? Editing techniques have gotten so good, i often wonder if they could make anyone sound "good". |
There is no reason to flame you for making a sensible point like this. :)
I agree... we have to look within dance music and consider things like this, not to mention the gross export of MANY dance music techniques to other kinds of music, even country (Pro Tools production, pitch correction and other vocal treatments, even subtle drum loops!). I often see gadgets and gizmos used as a lazy excuse for not learning new things.
This is a strength and a weakness for electronic music -- studio intricacy. It is still easier to make something good sound great however, than polish the proverbial turd. I believe a diversity of experience is important, if not mandatory: to note, a singer with an acoustic folk background who starts collaborating with dance producers is obviously going to understand the importance of being able to sing live, spontaneously, and raw. Whereas someone single-minded with tunnel vision who chooses not to learn from other fields of music, is only limiting themselves in the end. |
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| Psy-T |
to the thread starter:
it seems like you are expecting some debate... but from who???
dont expect someone to come flailing his arms about britney in here,
you arent gonna get a debate regarding BS lack of talent in this place, because that opininon (or fact :tongue3 ) is something that goes without saying around these boards, its just common knowledge.
:toocool: |
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