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Reagan's Viewing (pg. 8)
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| Dj_Irish |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
DJ_Irish, you will hear many of the Eastern Europeans leaders who lead the uprising sing great praise of Regan. I've heard one such leader in an interview who said that without Regan the revolutions would have gone no where. |
Oh yes, I don't doubt that. I never contended that Reagan had nothing to do with the demise of the Sovjet Union. Only that he wasn't the only part of it. I just came to think about it when I was reading various news outlets on the web. |
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| MisterOpus1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
My thoughts on this thread:
1) The argument about showing Regan's funeral - a person who is remembered as a public servant - to the public is ridicilous. |
Agreed.
| quote: | 2) The argument about showing servicemen's funerals is as equally ridicilous. I have seen at least two "flag-drapped" funerals of Houston-men who had died in service of their country in Iraq on the local TV.
Those that argue that these funerals have some negative effect and are therefore censored by the government, how do you respond to that? TV broadcast of the funerals of Texan serviceman by Texan media - probably some of the most right-wing media you can find in the nation.
It is not the "right" that is censoring these funerals, it is the left. Do you see similar funerals on your local stations in California and New York?
Military funerals are not censored. I am sure if the family wishes the media will not be there, they will try and respect. This is not the case however. I have never heard of a case where the family has asked the media to leave and they were still there. Same goes for the funeral of Regan - if the Regans would have wished it not to have been televised, it wouldn't have been.
So if we want to start playing politics.. you might want to question your assumptions further. |
What assumption? There is a mandate from the DOD NOT to release pictures from Dover AFB - that's not Left or Right media at work - that's our government.
If they showed a funeral service in Texas - fine. I'm sure it was done with full consent of the family in a highly respectable manner.
The question remains, however, why does this Administration feel it necessary to censure something that has never been censured before?
And should we really be upset with the press or the public outcry with the release of these photos, given this Administration's propensity for secrecy?
| quote: | 3) Regan did help bring down the fall of the soviet union. True the Soviet Union would have fallen sooner or later, but because of Regan it fell sooner. For all we know the whole empire could have lasted twenty even fifty more years without him. Regan put the pressure on the soviet union - He was the first president to put the financial and moral pressure on the Union, which lead to its demise.
He termed them "evil empire" - this phrasing did much to help the uprising in Eastern Europe. Regan operated against common western European sympathies at the time and helped increase funding of Radio free Europe, and helped arm the uprising - actions all his predeccsors refused to do in hopes of not angering the Russians.
DJ_Irish, you will hear many of the Eastern Europeans leaders who lead the uprising sing great praise of Regan. I've heard one such leader in an interview who said that without Regan the revolutions would have gone no where. |
I've heard certain Leftist arguments about the fall of Communism being well on it's way without the help of Reagan. A coupla Leftist commentators even went so far as to say that Reagan only elongated the fall of Soviet Communism.
I think my thoughts on the matter are that Communism was no doubt failing, and it's days were certainly numbered. To me, Reagan likely had a role in it's downfall - hell if Gorbechov himself states that Reagan contributed to the downfall of Communism, I'd have to agree with him. Honestly, that's about all I have on that particular topic.
The funeral procession on Friday was pretty interesting and moving. I thought the two eulogies from Reagan's daughter and adopted son couldn't have been any different, but they both spoke from their hearts and I simply can't fault them for that. The most moving moment for me personally was, of course, Nancy's final goodbye to her husband, weeping and hugging the coffin as her children came up to comfort her. I don't shed tears too often, but that moment sincerely moved me. I can't even begin to imagine how terribly difficult these last few years have been on Nancy with her husband suffering from Alzheimer's. Everyone seems to want to cherish and remember Ronald's politics above everything else. I simply cannot raise his politics above the love he and his wife shared. To me that was his greatest strength. |
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| St_Andrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by MisterOpus1
I can't even begin to imagine how terribly difficult these last few years have been on Nancy with her husband suffering from Alzheimer's. Everyone seems to want to cherish and remember Ronald's politics above everything else. I simply cannot raise his politics above the love he and his wife shared. To me that was his greatest strength. |
Not that i don't agree with you here, but this pretty much prove our point, a picture/tv show so much more than anything else. Millions of people dies every year cause of Alzheimer, many people support their dying family members, yet you feel so much compassion for Nancy Reagan but not for the many others that has the same problem.
also, Alzheimer may have been stopped if bush had some other stem cell policies, just had to say that sorry :p |
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| MisterOpus1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by St_Andrew
Not that i don't agree with you here, but this pretty much prove our point, a picture/tv show so much more than anything else. Millions of people dies every year cause of Alzheimer, many people support their dying family members, yet you feel so much compassion for Nancy Reagan but not for the many others that has the same problem. |
Well, I'm not sure I'd necessarily disagree with you here, but I do think it may actually help to put this disease into the limelight a little more, which may help funding in the long run.
I am projecting a little bit here, though.
| quote: | | also, Alzheimer may have been stopped if bush had some other stem cell policies, just had to say that sorry :p |
I certainly wouldn't think it would have been "stopped", per se, or even cured for that matter, even if we had full access to stem cells. However, we certainly could have had better scientific advances by now. Who knows.
Nancy Reagan, to her credit, is scorning and chiding Bush every chance she can get about this issue. And for that, she has my applause. Issues such as these are always fun to talk about politically...until someone close to you is critically affected. |
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| St_Andrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by MisterOpus1
Well, I'm not sure I'd necessarily disagree with you here, but I do think it may actually help to put this disease into the limelight a little more, which may help funding in the long run.
I am projecting a little bit here, though. |
yeah i have nothing against it, just show what this thread had been mostly about, that pictures do effect people a lot and without them it's harder to understand.
| quote: | I certainly wouldn't think it would have been "stopped", per se, or even cured for that matter, even if we had full access to stem cells. However, we certainly could have had better scientific advances by now. Who knows.
Nancy Reagan, to her credit, is scorning and chiding Bush every chance she can get about this issue. And for that, she has my applause. Issues such as these are always fun to talk about politically...until someone close to you is critically affected. |
true, tho, it may have helped, perhaps not for him but for future people with alzheimers... quite recently there actually was a successful stem cell transplantation/operation of an Alzeimers patient in sweden :) so yeah, perhaps even for him :) but i said that moslty cause i think it's fun to use every chance to pick on bush :p |
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| igottaknow |
they should do a study on short term memory loss in the White House, because it seems Presidents and their top officials have real problem recalling things like... memos they've issued on torture. Who knows maybe stem cell research could be the key to over coming this disorder.  |
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| Cyrus King |
This thread is so funny i cant contain myself...
Reagans viewing..hAHAHAHAHA.. lets wait 12 hours to walk past a stupid coffin.
For s sake, this is pathetic.
People mourning a man responsible for funding coups that killed several thousand people.. how can you guys be sad. In my opinion, hes just like Saddam....Saddam is probably sad his old oil buddy is dead. Oh well,,, hell always remember Reagan turning his back when he gassed the kurds!
Im really happy to see him dead.. what a great week its been. |
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| BadBadNeil |
| Sure took you a long time to chime in Cyrus, away on vacation? |
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| Cyrus King |
| quote: | Originally posted by BadBadNeil
Sure took you a long time to chime in Cyrus, away on vacation? |
I was banned for a bit for stating my legitemate opinion...plus.. i havent really been home this week.
The almighty took his power and unbanned me. |
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| Shakka |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cyrus King
I was banned for a bit for stating my legitemate opinion...plus.. i havent really been home this week.
The almighty took his power and unbanned me. |
Translation: I was banned for acting like a classless jerk, so I decided to take a few days away from my computer.
After whining to the moderators and promising to behave like something above a 13 year old, I have been given yet another chance.:toothless |
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| Yoepus |
| quote: | Originally posted by Shakka
Translation: I was banned for acting like a classless jerk, so I decided to take a few days away from my computer.
After whining to the moderators and promising to behave like something above a 13 year old, I have been given yet another chance.:toothless |
Oh prodding the guy on parole. So evil:D
MisterOpus - we have been through the argument with the military's ban on displaying bodies on its property while via transit. Regardless to your opinion, the military has the legal right to do that.
If you disagree with it change the law. Personally, I don't care one way or the other on the issue because it in and of itself is insignificant.
You do get to see the coffins and you do get to see the funerals <-- my point. Therefore the argument that we should see those military funerals in addition or instead of Regan is a mute point. This was the initial argument on the subject.
As for stem cell research - I agree with you here. This is perhaps the one issue where my beliefes are most hmm how should I put it...? anitbush. |
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| MisterOpus1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
Oh prodding the guy on parole. So evil:D
MisterOpus - we have been through the argument with the military's ban on displaying bodies on its property while via transit. Regardless to your opinion, the military has the legal right to do that.
If you disagree with it change the law. Personally, I don't care one way or the other on the issue because it in and of itself is insignificant.
You do get to see the coffins and you do get to see the funerals <-- my point. Therefore the argument that we should see those military funerals in addition or instead of Regan is a mute point. This was the initial argument on the subject.
As for stem cell research - I agree with you here. This is perhaps the one issue where my beliefes are most hmm how should I put it...? anitbush. |
Okay okay, I'll back off. Besides, I think we're both on "repeat" mode and are simply regurgitating our arguments. I'll agree to disagree on this one, and I'm more than happy to move on. There are much greater disagreements I have with this Administration than this, and I also kinda felt bad tying it to Reagan's funeral. I do think that analogy is not the best one to make here.
Besides, someone just opened up the "Religious debate..." thread, and I've gotta concentrate my anti-fundy mojo over there.:D |
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