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V-Synth users?
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| phreneticangel |
| As an owner of this synth i was wondering if any one else here has one and knows of any user groups on the net for it? |
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| Sebraa |
Love the MATRIX (left upper) and this INFRARED controller is WICKED :)
Now I understand when BT performing LIVE , wave his hand and synthsound is pitching :D MASSIVE but too expencive to me :(
Local YAMA dealer is promoting this beauty very much!
Maybe too big for bedroomstudio but it's good ;) |
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| BelgianGuru |
Holy man, I just fell in love all over again ! Does this synth allow sound-creation the same way as a Virus and such things ? And can you record samples to it ? For example drum loops or something (good for live play imo) ?
[edit]
Hmm reviews on the net don't seem to promising ...[/edit] |
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| phreneticangel |
| This synth is unlike any synth on the market. It does allow sampling and traditional synthesis, but is truly meant for creating sounds that are organic and evolving etc. |
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| BelgianGuru |
Which is really cool indeed, from the artist's perspective. But in the review they state that it's buggy and thus NOT suited for live performance ? Could you let me know in a week or so how you think the synth is ? What you think lacks and is great on it etc... ?
Thanks |
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| CandyRaver666 |
I have been using the V-synth 1.50 for some time now and there have been no issues with bugs at all.
It's VA section is relatively good, but takes some tinkering to sound great. I must confess it is easier to make great sounds on the Virus kC, but it is possible to make equivalent sounds on the V-synth, but with a lot more work.
Two oscillators are routed through a modulator and two COSM sections (think of them as filters, but they can do more than that, including wave shaping, comb filters etc.)
When programming in VA, these oscillators can be chosen as VA waveforms. Choices include single high quality waves and lower quality waves with choice of +octave sounds and sub oscillators.
The power in programming comes as every oscillator and COSM effect has multiple LFO and ADSR envelope controls.
For example, the VA waveforms have pitch with keyboard follow/ADSR/LFO,envelope depth/LFO depth, FAT/detune with LFO/ADSR/envelope depth/LFO depth, pulse width with LFO/ADSR/envelope depth/LFO depth and oscillator depth with ADSR/LFO/envelope depth/LFO depth, Note that while the ADSRs function independantly, all share the same LFO.
Each COSM effect have this control too, eg. HPF has frequency (LFO,ADSR,envelope depth, LFO depth), resonance (LFO,ADSR, envelope depth, LFO depth). Once again, the LFO is shared.
The real power of the V-synth comes from sampling, or using the inputs.
When selecting a PCM sample as an oscillator, most of the above oscillator effects are available, and of course all the COSM effects are available. For example, I route a JP 8000 raw supersaw PCM sample through, and do all my supersaw effects through my V-synth.
Futhermore, I love routing other synths through my v-synth. I routinely route my kC and Spectrasonics Atmosphere through the v-synth for some wow effects. I have sampled some sounds into PCM samples of the v-synth too.
Being able to slow down samples, shift their formants and pitchs shows how truly versatile the variphrase effects are. Truly wonderous sound formation.
The last great feature of the v-synth is resampling.
Any sound created on the v-synth can be turned into a PCM sample with the push of a few buttons. This sample can then be used as a PCM oscillator, for the creation of more sounds. Repeat as many times as desired. Because the sounds remain in the digital domain, noise remains minimal, but of course, will eventually amplify if resampling occurs greatly. Of course, using the limiter COSM effect (like a gate) will help partially.
I also loved the USB connection to the computer. It appears as an external hard drive, and you just drag and drop PCM files as you wish.
In closing :
A great synthesizer, but NOT A BASIC SYNTH.
Buy it if you want to create new, exciting and wierd sounds.
Don't buy it if you want to easily program new sounds. It takes a lot of time and effort and has much unseen depth. The presets SUCK by and large, so you're not really going to get a feel for it unless you sit down and really toy with it for a while.
Don't buy it if your primary need is VA. Buy a virus instead, unless you are willing to persevere for high quality VA from the v-synth. As I said, it is achievable, but not as simple as on the Virus (though don't kid yourself into thinking you can easily program great VA on the virus either).
Play with it in the store for a while, and make sure you're up to synth programming before bringing it home and turning it into a 2k paperweight.
Don't just take my word for it, listen to someone you trust :
SOS review :
I almost don't want to tell anyone about the V-Synth, because it's the first instrument in years that promises a genuine edge over the competition. Variphrase technology is capable of twisting samples to an extraordinary degree, and extracting interesting sounds from even dull samples in a way that I'd always hoped a sampler would. I've owned a few samplers over the years, but I must admit I've never been satisfied with any of them. Perhaps because of my synthesizer background, I always felt frustrated by how little you can do with a sample once you've got it. Therefore, the V-Synth was the breath of fresh air that made me reassess sampling from the ground up.
The full SOS V-synth review
EDIT :
Live performing is not an issue. It is in fact, designed to be easy for that. As mentioned above, I have had no stability issues.
The large time trip pad on the left, and D-beams can be assigned to any parameter, so they can be effected in real time with just a wave of the hand. I like to liken it to scratching on my decks.
Furthermore, two assignanle control knobs control other effects at your choosing.
The thing that really convinces me the V-synth is for performance though, is the lighting. All buttons glow and controls are easy to find in the dark. Much better than most other synths I have used. |
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| BelgianGuru |
Wow thanks for that reply man, I appreciate the effort !
I am all for original sounds, but it would be my first and last synth for at least 2 or 3 years, unless if something happens during those years. But would you say it's great as a standalone synth if you don't have anything else as a hardware synth, or would you say it's only great in combo with other stuff ?
Btw if you say atmosphere, does this mean I can sent sounds from my V-station (vst) to the v-synth (which is not a vst obviously)? (regardless of their names ok :))
Thanks ! |
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| phreneticangel |
As a standalone synth it doesn't stand up against synths like the virus, but in combination with other synths etc. it is the greatest sound manipulation synth.
And you can send audio from a sequencer to the v-synth via its inputs. |
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| CandyRaver666 |
Yes, I would have to agree with Phrenetic.
As a stand alone synth, it can stand up to other synths but takes a lot more work and programming nouse.
In combination with other synths it is simply incredible.
If you're only going to buy one synth for the next couple of years, then you probably shouldn't buy this one unless most of your work is sample based. In this case, it is a great buy.
Bang for buck wise, I'd advise a second hand virus B (though as I said above, don't think that these things are a snap to program either).
To answer your question about routing, yes, you can route your V-station through to the V-synth, but garbage in=garbage out so you need to have good hardware linking the two.
To do this, your sound card needs two separate stereo output channels (or use two sound cards).
One channel will be used as your master out (to your monitors).
The second channel will be used to send the VST output to your V-synth.
This is how I patch my VSTi's into my V-Synth
Cubase SX 1.06 running my chosen VST
Use my V-synth as the MIDI in controller to run the VST
Patch the output of the VST through my Yamaha 01X to a selected BUS. BUS faders are down, so this original raw sound doesn't come out in the mix. BUS Prefader levels are then sent to the V-synth (I use the 96KhZ digital in/out, but I have done it with TRS cables - both V-synth and 01X have 24bit AD/DA converters).
V-synth oscillator is set to external source. V-synth outputs are routed back to the 01X mixer as an input.
Now all VSTi's can take full advantage of all V-synth COSM/Filters/Effects. Furthermore, I can route the input back into the 01X's DSP box, dynamics and 4 band parametric EQs.
I can also simply sample the VSTi inputs to use as stand alone PCM oscillators. |
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| Vert |
| quote: | Originally posted by CandyRaver666
Yes, I would have to agree with Phrenetic.
As a stand alone synth, it can stand up to other synths but takes a lot more work and programming nouse.
In combination with other synths it is simply incredible.
If you're only going to buy one synth for the next couple of years, then you probably shouldn't buy this one unless most of your work is sample based. In this case, it is a great buy.
Bang for buck wise, I'd advise a second hand virus B (though as I said above, don't think that these things are a snap to program either).
To answer your question about routing, yes, you can route your V-station through to the V-synth, but garbage in=garbage out so you need to have good hardware linking the two.
To do this, your sound card needs two separate stereo output channels (or use two sound cards).
One channel will be used as your master out (to your monitors).
The second channel will be used to send the VST output to your V-synth.
This is how I patch my VSTi's into my V-Synth
Cubase SX 1.06 running my chosen VST
Use my V-synth as the MIDI in controller to run the VST
Patch the output of the VST through my Yamaha 01X to a selected BUS. BUS faders are down, so this original raw sound doesn't come out in the mix. BUS Prefader levels are then sent to the V-synth (I use the 96KhZ digital in/out, but I have done it with TRS cables - both V-synth and 01X have 24bit AD/DA converters).
V-synth oscillator is set to external source. V-synth outputs are routed back to the 01X mixer as an input.
Now all VSTi's can take full advantage of all V-synth COSM/Filters/Effects. Furthermore, I can route the input back into the 01X's DSP box, dynamics and 4 band parametric EQs.
I can also simply sample the VSTi inputs to use as stand alone PCM oscillators. |
I'm really impressed with your posts lately :D. Anyways, when you get bored sometime, want to give me your thoughts on the 01x? Seems like an interesting piece of kit.
es |
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| CandyRaver666 |
Sure Vert.
I am in love with my 01X. It is certainly my most important piece of equipment.
For those of you with no idea, read on. The 01X ia a DAW (Digital Audio Workstation), with everything you would expect and more, but without a sequencer. This may seem to take the W out of DAW, but rest assured, this is because it connects to your computer via a IE1394 firewire cable and uses your computer's sequencer. All major sequencers are supported, including Cubase, Reason, Logic, Yamaha SQ1 and so on.
When I initially bought all my gear, I thought seriously of buying cheaper monitors, and maybe no mixer at all. It's funny how unimportant you can think things are before you start using them.
Now I realise my 01X is integral to my setup, and highly recommend it to anyone who (a) can afford it and wants (b) a fully integrated small studio solution. It is a proaudio piece of equipment, with a proaudio price tag.
In a nutshell it is :
-A complete sequencer control surface, including full MIDI control of VSTi and full automation
-A 32 audio path sound card with full 4 band parametric EQ/HPF/LPF, dymanics and panning on each channels combined with an additional :
-8 Mono balanced inputs with gain, 2x phantom power, 1 x HiZ with 24bit AD converter with full EQ/Dynamics
-A stand alone (without computer) mixer for the eight channels with all effects and EQ
-Two DSP pathways for effects (reverb, flange, phase, symphonic, distortion etc.)
-Daisy-chainable to firewire mLAN devices for further inputs/outputs
-And more in fine print
So, the 01x is easily set up. I connect it to the firewire interface of my laptop, but am irritated to find that Yamaha only supply a six pin to six pin firewire cable. Easily fixed with a Belkin 6 to 4 pin firewire cable but at an unnecessary cost of $30.
Following the setup directions for the 01X proved to be far more difficult than anticipated. I had previously explored the O1X forums (www.01xray.com) and found that a significant number of people had difficulty or catastrophic failure attempting to use the device. I understand this is due to the non-standard nature of firewire chipsets, so if you're going to buy an O1X, make sure that your computer has an OCHI compliant firewire (still no guarantee of absolute function) or better still visit the website for a list of proven chipsets.
I downloaded the latest drivers from mLANcentral and applied these to my system, despite the Yamaha recommendations not to.
Once I understood what I was doing, it became simple. Setting up the O1X in the Device Tools of Cubase SX was relatively straightfoward, and thus my audiopaths were set up.
The V-synth was connected through Audio input 3,4 via balanced TRS cables (Panned hard L and hard R), and posessing motorised faders, I channel linked these two (meaning that moving one fader moved the other).
A similar process was done for the SPS-1, kC, A1. Channels 1 & 2 are XLR with phantom power, which allows for stereo miking.
The HR824's connected smoothly into the monitor outs. Out ports are monitor outs, headphones, digital out (sample rate 44.1 to 96kHz) and stereo out. Any combination of channels can be BUSsed to the digital out or the stereo out ports.
Background
When I decided I wanted a control surface, I looked very hard at the Tascam FW1884. 8 chanels, firewire, 4 midi in/outs. Just when I thought I was ready to buy, I started to hear about the O1X. So I diligently did some research, and found that the combination of a mixer, control surface, audio interface and DSP centre was exactly all the things I needed.
Relevant competitors
-Tascam FW1884
Control surface, audio interface and mixer. 4 MIDI in/outs and XLR/TRS inputs on every channel are great. No DSP, EQ, Dynamics
-Digi002 Interface
Means you have to use Protools LE, even less options than 1884
Layer away
The 01X has eight + one faders. The one is the master volume, and is a stereo fader. Note that the faders are only 60mm and not the 100mm found on other proaudio. They are, however, fully motorised.
However, the control surface controls up to 32 channels. There are four "layer buttons", and by pressing the corresponding layer button, faders 1-8 control audio input channels 1-8, mLAN 1-8, mLAN 9-16, mLAN 17-24.
Most of the time you don't need to have access to 32 faders, but I will confess that it makes it difficult to control more than eight faders simultaneously, although you can create and assign "fader groups" which all move together.
Furthermore, with fader groups, all faders will more proportionately.
For example, if I assign Audio 5 to -10dB, mLAN 3 -30dB, mLAN 4 -20dB, mLAN 7 -5dB, then if I move any fader in this fader group, all faders will move up by the proportionate amount (if I move mLAN 3 up 5dB, then Audio 5 become -5dB, mLAN 3 -25dB, mLAN 4 -15dB, MLAN 7 0dB).
These mLAN channels are the audio channels between the O1X and your computer. That is, if I play audio in cubase, I need to assign it to one of these twenty four channels (consider it a 24 channel audio card). If working in stereo, then naturally you have twelve stereo pairs.
But a caveat ! If you sample at 96kHz, then you lose eight of these channels due to firewire bandwidth issues and then you only have mLAN 1-16 available. This may still seem quite reasonable, but eight stereo pairs is hardly a lot of tracks to play with, though sensibly if you ran out you would submix some tracks into one.
The beauty of all these mLAN channels though are they are full audio channels, once again with full dyanmics and 4 band EQ on each. The faders and rotary knobs can be assigned to all controls, and if you're into gimmicks, any written automation in cubase will move all the faders up and down when the song plays accordingly.
Control surface
This communicated using the Mackie Control protocol, which is a cinch to set up in Cubase SX under the device options tab. Cubase SX 2 has the 01X as a control option, but I note many people still prefering the Mackie Control Protocol.
Instantaneous control of all paramaters of all tracks (volume/pan/automation) is granted, control of all VSTIs and control of Cubase made my life so much more pleasant. I know some people who enjoy dragging a mouse around the computer screen, but I am always thankful for more knobs. Control is two way, so changing a value or moving a fader in Cubase also moves it on the 01X.
Furthermore, the first six characters of the track name appear in the 01X LCD LCD display above the strips. When moving between layers, these all change accordingly. They also change in real time, as you change the channel name in Cubase or your preferred sequencer.
The sound interface is great, able to provide up to 96kHz on all eight channels. Furthermore, 4 band EQ, and dynamics (gates/compression/limiter) are always available on all channels, which is great. I was disappointed that the O1X had only 2 MIDI in MIDI out ports, and that input 1 and 2 (of eight) are XLR only, although phantom power is available. Compare this to the FW1884 which had XLR & balanced TRS inputs on every channel. O1X Channels 3-8 are all balanced TRS, but channel 8 also has a Hi-Z input (for electric guitars and the like).
Effects
The O1X apparently has the same digital effects DSP as the other Yamaha digital mixers such as the O1V and the O2VR. there are two effects processors which have over forty effects, such as reverb, flange, chorous and so on.
You can either assign these effects to channels (meaning that only one channel can be assigned to one effect), or alternately, you can assign as many channels as you wish to one effects (eg. reverb), but the same effect parameter (eg. reverb time) effects all the channels the same.
The effects sound pretty good, but of course they aren't TC Electronics Fireworx quality.
Latency
Using the supplied ASIO drivers, I have no trouble running at a 2ms latency, which, for all intents and purposes, is instantaneous.
Manual
The O1X manual is satisfactory but not by any means intuitive. For those of you who have no idea about recording/EQing/Compressing/Mixing then there's a great starters tutorial in it. Download it in PDF format at the website.
I really began to understand the power of the O1X after getting the DVD "Inside the O1X". Typically, if you live in the USA, this ships for FREE. If you're outside the USA, it is still free but posage costs $US15. Once again, get it from the O1X website.
At the end of the DVD is a short documentary about a recording session using the O1X in Nashville. This concreted in my mind the process of recording, submixing and mixing. It's a really useful insight into what goes into the productino of a track, and if you can afford (or if you live in the USA - it's free), then get onto www.O1Xray.com and get a copy of the DVD.
The 01X in use.
A basic programming session begins like this.
I hit the "remote" button on the 01x and it becomes the Cubase SX control surface.
I choose my sample depth and sample rate (16-32bit, 44.1 to 96kHZ)
I enter my tracks as MIDI. I assign the MIDI to VSTi's, or to the physical MIDI output ports on the 01X. Argh ! Only 2 MIDI In/OUTs make it a pain to switch between synths. I could buy another interface, but that would make it too easy.
MIDI tracks are controlled from the 01X, but of course no dynamics/EQ are available on these.
VSTi's are routed to a selected mLAN channel.
EG. Pro 53 routed to mLAN 1&2 (two channels for stereo, panned hard left and hard right). Atmosphere 1 to mLAN 3&4. Atmosphere 2 to mLAN 5&6. Zeta to mLAN 7&8 etc.
Full 4 band EQ/Dynamics are available on mLAN channels.
By pressing the "mLAN layer 1-8" button, I can now have control over all these mLAN channel faders, including their EQ/dynamics.
I can now just play these tracks as a MIDI sequencer, but I only do this while I'm arranging.
Once I'm happy arranging, then I mix these all down to audio.
This is simply a matter of creating an audio track for each MIDI track.
For example, if MIDI 1 track is called "LEAD", then I create a new audio track called "LEAD" in Cubase. Selecting the corresponding input (if track LEAD is a VSTi, then I select the corresponding mLAN track as the input. If track LEAD is from one of my outboard synths, I select audio input 1-8 corresponding to the physical 01X inputs).
All tracks are now mixed down to audio.
Each audio track is then assigned an individual mLAN channel.
Now I go through the basic mixing steps with the audio, applying EQ and dynamics as I see fit. Vocals are also recorded if used.
Of course, I record all my automation to the audio tracks.
I only tend to submix with percussion. For newbies, please note that although it is tempting to make your percussion with one track, do not do this if you are serious about making music.
Give each percussive instrument it's own individual track. That's because you want to apply different effects and vary the volume to each one. Eg. A bass drum/hi hat on the same track shouldn't have the same volume/compression applied. I usually mix down 10-12 percussion tracks into a couple of percussion tracks. This is one area the 01X loses out, because with only 24 audio channels (12 stereo pairs), you can't have 8 percussion tracks and only four others.
Once I'm happy with this then I export the mix down.
When purchasing the 01X, you get three programs thrown in. These can be bought individually without the 01X.
Pitch fixer is a nice program, atleast comparable to the Antares version, and does exactly what you think it should do. Great production here.
The Final Master is a three band compressor / mastering program, which I occasionally use, but is not Yamaha's best work.
I've never used Vocal Rack.
In summary
This is just a snapshot of the 01X. There is so much more depth to it.
If you can afford it and it suits your need, then I can't recommend better for the price. (I define need as an all-in-one-box home studio).
Negatives
-It does not work for all firewire devices. Check with www.01xray.com
-Steep learning curve - You have to get the DVD (though show me a piece of proaudio equipment that doesn't)
-MONITOR OUTPUTS ARE -6dB and UNBALANCED (wtf ... really gives me the s on a piece of supposed proaudio equipment).
Final analysis
Equipment like this doesn't necessarily make your music any better, but it makes getting there a lot easier and a hell of a lot more fun (but saying that is a bit like saying Armin should produce without his TDM - course he can, but why should he ?).
Links
Yamaha 01X official homepage
Sound on Sound Yamaha plug in review
WARNING : eSUB Only, Can't be viewed by non-subs until Six months after Feb4
Sound on Sound Yamaha 01X review
WARNING : eSUB Only, Can't be viewed by non-subs until Six months after Mar04
SOS summary
Summing Up
The 01X combines the best elements of all the different add-ons you need to turn a computer-based digital audio workstation into a recording studio. Admittedly, it doesn't have a two-track recorder connection, and nor does it offer surround monitoring or any talkback facilities, but it does provide a superb multi-channel Firewire audio interface that sounds as good as the latest generation of stand-alone audio interfaces, two free MIDI ports, a full-spec Yamaha digital mixer with moving faders, snapshot automation and onboard effects and dynamics, with a serious control surface. It also comes with some seriously worthwhile plug-ins, Studio Manager software and even a Windows sequencer for those not already aligned to one of the existing major DAWs. Because connection is via a single Firewire cable, the 01X should be particularly attractive to anyone using laptops or slotless iMacs, but that doesn't preclude it from use with desktop machines as it offers a huge amount of well-thought-out, high-quality functionality at a bargain price. Anyone making music on a computer who hasn't yet bought a sophisticated audio interface or control surface should take a close look at this product.
Yamaha 01X £1229
pros
-Incredible value for money.
-All the sections behave seriously well, from the control surface -emulation to the digital mixer.
-I/O can be expanded via mLAN.
-Connects via a single Firewire cable.
-Very useful bundled plug-ins.
cons
-Some metering and ergonomic aspects have been compromised due to the need to simplify the control surface.
-OS X driver not available at the time of this review.
summary
The 01X is truly a one-box solution to the problem of turning a computer and sequencing software into a complete and quite sophisticated studio system. |
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