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Novation is dead (pg. 3)
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| Zombie0915 |
Well, only a few people can afford to buy 400$ or higher machines, since everyone is charging in that area it makes sense that companies are going to die.
How does a kid who is still in school afford one of these things besides saving up for it for a looong time. An older person with an established job and some decent funds isn't as likely to be interested in EDM, and the rich kids have found newer fads to patronize.
These companies aren't only losing out to the warez, they are losing out to cheaper solutions. One can obtain a pretty complete setup using only freeware, it's already been proven, professionals have put out big songs using free programs. A 100$ investment can get someone a decent program or 2, maybe even a midi controller. One could take the cost one one hardware synth and build a nearly complete and decent music making system with all the cheaper things that are available.
Sure it might not be as "high quality" but the sad truth is that most people would rather just make music then sacrifice the large chunk of income required to get most of the hardware that is for sale.
How does buying your software make hardware synths dirt cheap?
Companies that try to sell things to people who cannot afford them are just asking to die, there isn't enough money in what we do to allow most of us the luxury of buying such expensive equipment.
Being a poor college student my setup consists of:
Buzz
FruityLoops
Freeware VST's
Other free programs(analogx stuff, open source things, free samples and things tranceaddicts have contributed for free download)
nothing is stolen, and nothing has ever been stolen, I am well aware of the implications of using cracked software and choose not to, so I'm not hurting anyone by stealng, instead I'm hurting them by using things that I can actually afford.
Anyone can crack open a book and learn to program, a ton of ameteurs have made programs that create and modulate sound and they give them out freely, and are happy to do it because they enjoy the appreciatio. With the huge amount of free things that people are constantly putting out, there are alot of possibilities. In the same sense, anyone can order circuit pieces and put them together if they know what they are doing. I'm at a school with an army of engineers just begging for some fun project to dive into. Once a person comes up with a design and mass produces it things get even cheaper to make, and those circuit components are cheap as hell if you order them in bulk.
What we are really paying for is the labor put into their design and the giant cost of educating their designers, that and the marketing and whatnot. After all that is payed for, the price gets marked up hardcore even more so that the people that make all this stuff can earn a living and have some money to spend. Companies that want to survive either have to make something that is so wonderful that people buy it anyway, or sell it for cheaper and hope that more people buy it once it is more easily obtainable, and try to get their profits from a larger set of lower-income customers, because the tiny group of people that can actually afford all this has been spread too thin to sustain all the companies that are making all the things we like to play with.
My argument isn't , there are a great many people who are in the same situation as me who choose not to buy things that they cannot afford.
30 decent effects processors: 0$
good software synth: 150$
other good software synth: 0$
2nd hand decent hardware: 300$-1000$
Don't get me wrong, I very much want to have the pricey programs and hardware one of these days, but in order for the industry to move forward and get better, some of the comanies will have to die. I very much enjoy the world of ameteur sound and like the idea that any average peasant can make quality music, things seem a lot more original and diverse when more people are given the ability to produce instead of a privaleged few.
People who want to make music don't have to steal anymore, so unless companies adapt to this competition, they will suffer.
--UnWorldly for natural selection, w00t w00t! |
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| tupsox |
| quote: | Originally posted by Massive84
no, am saying if everything was right and equal, you wouldn't have this problem.
i do agree with signalrunner, i understand he is angry.
but there is a difference between i have money and i can afford but i will download and not buy, and between i have harldy money to pay food, study, clothes etc., things that you need to survive and download.
the first group is selfish, the second group just is trying to. |
It's not the developers/programmers fault if someone is poor and has trouble affording good hardware and software. It's stealing any way you look at it!
And all you pirates are responsible for these companies going out of business. Everybody on the planet now has a bootleg copy of V-station, and those of us who bought it like suckers had to deal with lousy Novation support because they were so strapped for cash. Thanks, s. |
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| BelgianGuru |
That's so wrong my friend. The warez is hurting it, not the prices. Do you think they need to sell millions of instruments to keep their head above water ? No, they need to sell enough, and throughout the years every new generation would have about the same amount of people to work for money to get their hardware, the ones that didn't work for it simply couldn't afford it, like today. Not all artists that made it in the past were born rich.
It's like saying CD's got too high a price, so I download. Bull, your lifestyle got more expensive, you buy useless (you is not YOU, just the people that complain) like a cellphone to call your mother to tell her you're on your way home. You buy expensive clothes because you think it'll get you laid, you go out every week-end spending 50$ because you want to party all the time... You don't have any money left for CD's ? Hey you don't need it, go download it, you don't have to pay if you steal it. Don't mind about the families you're putting on the street without an income by doing it though, as long as you have everything you need it's fine.
It's only this (my) generation that seemed to have stopped to realise that behind every piece of software every piece of music, every game made, is a team or person who invested most of their lives in it, only to have it stolen by millions who claim the CD is too pricey.. 20$ for something that took a man years, or a team even longer ... that is quite the steal by itself.
The price of it has nothing to do with it, the price has always been high, any artist that loves music to the bone, will tell you that even 3000$ spent on an instrument is nothing, compared by what you get from it (and I don't mean the small amount of money you make if you ever get signed).
heck, sorry for the rant here, but a small example about me, and most probably many of you have something similar happening.
In High school I had this friend, almost a best friend, we'd go out every week-end partying etc... I took music classes from the age of 6, most people drop out of it because it's too hard or boring, yet he held it against me saying 'Yeah but we can't afford a piano' Hey , neither could I, the entire family gave me a couple of bucks so I could go buy a rotten piece of wood for 500$, that I called my piano, and I played on it for 6 years untill I and my parents had saved money to buy a good one. At the age of 13 I see a DJ at work, holy I want to do that too. I save up money during 3 years to buy my Tech 12's and a mixing board. My 'friend' visits my house and he goes ' I wish I was rich too, I would be a DJ too then'. Man, seriously, that makes me go mad inside. Now 4 years later, he hears I'm producing stuff, and spinning it at my own parties, this lousy ****** says in front of everybody 'I wish I was rich too, I would so make great tunes'. All this time this guy has been earning WAY more money then me, spending it on nice clothes, parties, girlfriends, trips to other countries etc... and me I stayed inside like a stupid ****** saving up money thinking that at least they would respect that. But no, people only see what they want to see, just like now when they see the price tag on a CD. And that's just sad. |
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| BelgianGuru |
| Oh yes, and for the guys that say it isn't fair that some people can't afford the stuff others can. Wake up man. I can't afford the same house as Bill Clinton, DOES THIS MEAN I SHOULD GO STEAL IT ? NO! I should work for the money, and earn that friggin house! |
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| alanzo |
| quote: | Originally posted by BelgianGuru
Everything that you said. |
You have a very good argument. But warez isn't all bad. I can name dozens of amateur producers who wouldn't of started this life-long hobby if it wasn't for warez (including myself). I've also heard of many proffesional producers that wouldn't of gotten into producing if it wasn't for warez.
But the thing that I don't like about buying software is that a lot of it you can't resell when you want to upgrade or when you don't need it anymore.
This completly throws me off from buying software. Of course if I ever made $$ off of my music, the software I used would be the first thing the money I make goes into. But until that day, a complete investment of at least $1500 for the software is way too much.
You can sure as hell bet that I wouldn't of bought the hardware I own if I wasn't able to resell it all with a loss of no more than $100. |
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| wayfinder |
wouldn't HAVE
(sorry ;)) |
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| Alan Nimmo |
| quote: | Originally posted by BelgianGuru
That's so wrong my friend. The warez is hurting it, not the prices. Do you think they need to sell millions of instruments to keep their head above water ? No, they need to sell enough, and throughout the years every new generation would have about the same amount of people to work for money to get their hardware, the ones that didn't work for it simply couldn't afford it, like today. Not all artists that made it in the past were born rich.
It's like saying CD's got too high a price, so I download. Bull, your lifestyle got more expensive, you buy useless (you is not YOU, just the people that complain) like a cellphone to call your mother to tell her you're on your way home. You buy expensive clothes because you think it'll get you laid, you go out every week-end spending 50$ because you want to party all the time... You don't have any money left for CD's ? Hey you don't need it, go download it, you don't have to pay if you steal it. Don't mind about the families you're putting on the street without an income by doing it though, as long as you have everything you need it's fine.
It's only this (my) generation that seemed to have stopped to realise that behind every piece of software every piece of music, every game made, is a team or person who invested most of their lives in it, only to have it stolen by millions who claim the CD is too pricey.. 20$ for something that took a man years, or a team even longer ... that is quite the steal by itself.
The price of it has nothing to do with it, the price has always been high, any artist that loves music to the bone, will tell you that even 3000$ spent on an instrument is nothing, compared by what you get from it (and I don't mean the small amount of money you make if you ever get signed).
heck, sorry for the rant here, but a small example about me, and most probably many of you have something similar happening.
In High school I had this friend, almost a best friend, we'd go out every week-end partying etc... I took music classes from the age of 6, most people drop out of it because it's too hard or boring, yet he held it against me saying 'Yeah but we can't afford a piano' Hey , neither could I, the entire family gave me a couple of bucks so I could go buy a rotten piece of wood for 500$, that I called my piano, and I played on it for 6 years untill I and my parents had saved money to buy a good one. At the age of 13 I see a DJ at work, holy I want to do that too. I save up money during 3 years to buy my Tech 12's and a mixing board. My 'friend' visits my house and he goes ' I wish I was rich too, I would be a DJ too then'. Man, seriously, that makes me go mad inside. Now 4 years later, he hears I'm producing stuff, and spinning it at my own parties, this lousy ****** says in front of everybody 'I wish I was rich too, I would so make great tunes'. All this time this guy has been earning WAY more money then me, spending it on nice clothes, parties, girlfriends, trips to other countries etc... and me I stayed inside like a stupid ****** saving up money thinking that at least they would respect that. But no, people only see what they want to see, just like now when they see the price tag on a CD. And that's just sad. |
in absolutely SPOT ON mate, well done, i couldnt have typed that better myself.
Alan |
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| tupsox |
| quote: | Originally posted by alanzo
You have a very good argument. But warez isn't all bad. I can name dozens of amateur producers who wouldn't of started this life-long hobby if it wasn't for warez (including myself). I've also heard of many proffesional producers that wouldn't of gotten into producing if it wasn't for warez.
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Which doesnt change the fact that its stealing.
| quote: |
But the thing that I don't like about buying software is that a lot of it you can't resell when you want to upgrade or when you don't need it anymore.
This completly throws me off from buying software. Of course if I ever made $$ off of my music, the software I used would be the first thing the money I make goes into. But until that day, a complete investment of at least $1500 for the software is way too much.
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This is a good point, but there are many workarounds such as dongles. Logic (which is great :) )and Cubase have dongles, some software has iLOK authorization, TC Powercore is tied to hardware (obviously). I think that DEFINITELY more companies need to use licensing methods like these to 1)combat piracy, 2)allow license transfers.
I bet half the people on this board who use Cubase didn't pay for it, which is frustrating for people who've shelled out several hundred dollars for a top notch sequencer/production suite. And if it weren't for piracy, Cubase would have resale value as the license is stored on a piece of hardware. |
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| tupsox |
| quote: | heck, sorry for the rant here, but a small example about me, and most probably many of you have something similar happening.
In High school I had this friend, almost a best friend, we'd go out every week-end partying etc... I took music classes from the age of 6, most people drop out of it because it's too hard or boring, yet he held it against me saying 'Yeah but we can't afford a piano' Hey , neither could I, the entire family gave me a couple of bucks so I could go buy a rotten piece of wood for 500$, that I called my piano, and I played on it for 6 years untill I and my parents had saved money to buy a good one. At the age of 13 I see a DJ at work, holy I want to do that too. I save up money during 3 years to buy my Tech 12's and a mixing board. My 'friend' visits my house and he goes ' I wish I was rich too, I would be a DJ too then'. Man, seriously, that makes me go mad inside. Now 4 years later, he hears I'm producing stuff, and spinning it at my own parties, this lousy ****** says in front of everybody 'I wish I was rich too, I would so make great tunes'. All this time this guy has been earning WAY more money then me, spending it on nice clothes, parties, girlfriends, trips to other countries etc... and me I stayed inside like a stupid ****** saving up money thinking that at least they would respect that. But no, people only see what they want to see, just like now when they see the price tag on a CD. And that's just sad. |
I can't stand people like that! Success requires alot of time and dedication, and some people want it easy. Yes its a crazy hobby to spend all our extra money and free time on this gear and doesn't make much sense objectively, but we do it because we love it. Most musicians aren't like Lil Jon where they can put some aluminum foil on their teeth, dial up the simplest 808 beat ever, make 1 lame synth lead, say "YEAAAHH this joint gon' make the bitches wet", and sit back while the millions roll in. |
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| sonic_akb |
| I think we should work to buy our tools, doesn't matter if you are Pro or amateur. I could have the V-Station pirated, but I've bought a Supernova II rack for $2000 in Brazil (Novation is very rare in my country, we only have Roland/Korg/Yamaha/Clavia here). I think we should pay for using the our software tools. |
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| DJDIRTY |
| I am not in fovour of piracy, but i have tried pirate versions of software, I am guilty of it, but i have done it to try the stuff. I did buy Cubase, I do have 2 hardware synths and other stuff, and I do own some software synths that I have paid for.. I only used the pirate versions of the software for tyrying if it's what I like. You people really have to be careful now since there is a lot of software out there that costs a lot of money and it's . Yep that i woudn't ever use it. So using pirated software for a trial was what I belive was my little security against buying expensive crappy software. It's a diefferent story with hardware synths, You can go buy one and return it to the store in fiew days for a full refound if you don't like it, but You can't return software, at list not where i live in canada.. |
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| Massive84 |
I have 2 things to say to the ones that say downloaders are s
Am not a downloader i don't use VST and am not defending but giving you something to think about.
WITHOUT WAREZ, this part of the forum mite not even exist, because the people that would produce would be maybe 95% less(including me, yes i started with a 20mb version of FL from kazaa)
So signalrunner, your good tune flutter :), mite be less famous now or no1 would know your name, but now they do because of this forum part, because of the producers and djs. |
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