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It seems that more NIMBYs want to ruin city life
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Liz Sauter poses the question, "Imagine if your neighbour decided at 11 p.m. he was going to mow his lawn until 3am. Now imagine he was using 1,000 lawnmowers. Then, when he's done, he comes over to your house, smashes his beer bottle, pees on your lawn and vomits on your front porch."
Sauter lives in the District Lofts at Spadina & Richmond and experiences a smiliar situation weekly when the Entertainment District nightclubs open their doors. She and dozens of other area residents and business owners have formed the Spadina/Queen/Peter/Richmond Association to fight for a cleaner and quieter neighbourhood.
"The noise issue is the most problematic" Sauter says
"There are no noise containment standards in many of these clubs, their patios or the rooftops patios. No sound-proofing is required. The buildings are like huge drums (where the sound) moves air and rattles the neighbouring house."
This Summer's new smoking bylaw has compounded the noise issue further. With nightclub patrons forced to smoke outdoors, the patios have become just as loud as the indoor dance floors.
"Spadina and Richmond is on the outskirts of where the noise is but we are still affected," Sauter reports. "I've had to call a couple of times even this week about one of the patios starting up at 3am with a deejay. I'm a block away. I shouldn't have to hear that. It's very clear that between 11p.m. and 7a.m. you're not supposed to hear that stuff"
In addition to the noise, the group is concerned with the behaviour of club goers after the clubs close down for th night. "Why do they think it is their playground?" Sauter aks. "They should respect the community. You wouldn't want your neighbours peeing, vomiting, doing drugs on your doorstep, but (outside of the Entertainment District) there is this attitude on NIMBY (not in my backyard)
Still, Sauter allows, "I don't want to label all clubs and clubbers as problematic. It's not all of them who are breaking the by-laws. For example, Rick Cowan at This is London is a great leader for how to act as a club within a community. They are participating in initiatives to clean up the area."
The Distrikt Nightclub was slower to respond to the groups overtures. "We spoke to them and we're pleased that they're now paying attention," Sauter says.
In November 2003, the group won permission to present a report on the situation to the city planning department. The report asks the mayor and council to require a disclosure statement about ownership and operating practices from businesses opening in the area, effective noise containment standards from new and existing clubs, rigorous occupant safety standards, and a new liability insurance requirement for clubs.
The group explains that the requirements will make the club owners face up to the investments they should have made in the first place. The group also asks for a new property tax surcharge for nightclubs, so they cost of the city's inspections and clean up efforts are recovered.
The report was accepted and in March city coucil created a mandate to moniter the nightclubs. A moratorium on new nightclubs was also imposed, but in the area west of Spadina.
The group says the problem with the moratorium is that it's forcing more clubs to open up in this area. The group has a meeting planned with city council on September 15th to finalize more details.
To become involved with group or to contact them. Contact Liz Sauter at [email protected] or call (416)729-8679. To learn more about the association visit www.king-spadina.com
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Maybe they should have thought of this before moving into the CLUB DISTRICT? Also, perhaps they should move to nunavut, i hear that its pretty quiet up there all year round!
THIS IS TORONTO PEOPLE! NOT BEAVERTON OR FLIN FLON!
I think i will be emailing this woman to tell her exactly how i feel. |
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| charmscars |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
Maybe they should have thought of this before moving into the CLUB DISTRICT? Also, perhaps they should move to nunavut, i hear that its pretty quiet up there all year round!
THIS IS TORONTO PEOPLE! NOT BEAVERTON OR FLIN FLON!
I think i will be emailing this woman to tell her exactly how i feel. |
werd. who moves to spadina/richmond thinking- "well this seems like a nice quiet neighbourhood" .cities have nightlife, there are usually areas where there are a lot of clubs all together- if you move there you should know what you are getting into, there are lots of areas in TO that are quiet at night that this lady should have moved to if she wante dpeace and quiet- or she could have moved to oakville- i hear they have a fantastic quiznos ;) |
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| Jayx1 |
What I have written so far. Please comment
Dear Liz
It is with great interest and concern that i read your piece about the situation in the entertainment district. I have been attending nightclubs now for about 10 years and I feel that I must respond to the comments made by your organization.
What really stands out in my mind is how people in an area labelled as "the entertainment district" can be so shocked as to the events that go on there. Loud music, drunk patrons and litter are to be expected in such an area. Now, should there be a bit more of a police presence on unruly behaviour? Perhaps. There is no excuse for public urination or littering but let's talk about noise for a second. Nightclubs, bars and large groups of people all create noise. Even large groups of people on a patio with no music will create noise. In an area with a large concentration of these places there will be a large concentration of these noises. Considering that the area is known as the entertainment district this should not come as a surprise.
When i first saw the signs go up back in 1997 for new condo developments in the district i knew that that was the beginning of the end. Sadly people are dumb enough to move next door to a club and expect the club to cater to the resident. As for the residents that were there before the clubs, why has it taken over 10-15 years for them to react? How long have you personally lived at your current address? The reason i ask is because i just recently moved in a flat over a pub with lots of noise from thurs-sat. Sometimes its very loud and people scream etc but i always remember that it was my choice to live above a pub in a vibrant area that attracts people.
Let's talk about cities in general. Do people not choose to live in cities due to the fact that there are more choices available to them? There is better shopping, a vibrant nightlife and more cultural activities. Since when do people move to a city for the peace and quiet? Isn't that why sleepy, car ghetto suburbs were invented? When you choose to live downtown you are making a lifestyle choice. What you are doing here is akin to moving next to a traintrack and then complaining about train noise. Just be lucky you don't live anywhere else in the world where the party STARTS at 2am. Oh and by the way, you dont hear residents there complaining.
Again, i agree with you that there is no excuse for people being unruly and urinating and throwing litter, however you cant expect downtown, especially the club district to be as peaceful as a suburban cul de sac all day and all night. It's just ridiculous and unrealistic.
My suggestion? move somewhere where you can enjoy the peace and quiet you are seeking such as georgetown or richmond hill and let Toronto be Toronto. With attitudes such as yours we will never become the world class city we try so desperately to be. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by charmscars
or she could have moved to oakville- i hear they have a fantastic quiznos ;) |
Cheap plugs rule! ;)
lol |
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| charmscars |
i like your letter, but there is one thing that i woudl take out- there were a group of citizens from mtl trying to get rid of afterhours clubs due to noise, so the comment about no one complaining in cities where parties start at 2am is not correct. other than that, i think you pretty much said it all.
if you want to take advantage of what a vibrant city can offer but not deal w/ the cons that come along w/ it, then maybe you need to consider moving. |
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| Jayx1 |
well the places im referring to are europe and south america where i have been.
I dont count North America because we are all pretty much one in the same in the complaint dept. And guess what? it shows. |
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| Crazy Serb |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
What you are doing here is akin to moving next to a traintrack and then complaining about train noise. |
You tell 'er, Jay! What they're basically doing is moving into a noisy area to begin with and then instead of admitting a mistake and moving out to a quieter area they start looking for the source of that noise and start bugging everyone around the city about it, and of course blaming it all on the party goers. Ridiculous... |
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| Jayx1 |
I like charmscars theory. That she was probably a partier than moved in for the convenience and then got old.
:D
Either that or my thoery that she's just not too bright |
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| Vivid Boy |
umm jayux1 why the do u care? its her problem thi shas nothing to do with u...
sometimes people u got to learn when to get involved and when to brush it off.. |
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| Jayx1 |
well if u dont want a club district left in Toronto then you shouldn't care. Sadly NIMBYs affect us all.
If these people are successful then clubs will either not be able to operate, or the music will be so low that it wont be worth going. |
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| maxtuh |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
well if u dont want a club district left in Toronto then you shouldn't care. Sadly NIMBYs affect us all.
If these people are successful then clubs will either not be able to operate, or the music will be so low that it wont be worth going. |
agreed, and good responsibility jayx1 to write the letter back. |
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| Vivid Boy |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
well if u dont want a club district left in Toronto then you shouldn't care. Sadly NIMBYs affect us all.
If these people are successful then clubs will either not be able to operate, or the music will be so low that it wont be worth going. |
they wont close the club district because one lil old lady is bitching...how much mney does she make the city per night? how much money does the club distrikt make? umm yeah |
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