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Report: U.S. deficit to hit $2.29 trillion (pg. 4)
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| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by Trancer-X
Kennedy's 'United States Notes' were interest and debt free. They had intrinsic value backed by the Treasury's silver reserves. It was an attempt to break free from the Fed's "fiat money."
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Well I edited my post above to address this issue
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If the Fed is actually a Government agency, why do they loan our Government money at interest?
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No net interest is earned off of that money. The Fed must present as collateral for the currency an amount of Treasury securities that is equivalent in value to the currency purchased. While the fed does collect interest on treasury securities it holds (as an independant central bank, it naturally invests in treasury bonds and other foreign securities), all fed profits are returned to the Treasury department. The reason why the board of governors controls the emissions of currency is so that they can make monetary policy decisions largely independent of political pressure. The issuance of U.S. Notes by the Treasury Department, an arm of the executive branch, would be a purely political entity. Do you want to hand Bush the keys to printing unlimited amounts of money?
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With the knowledge base of all of the professors and economists, why aren't we able to stop our National debt from spiralling out of control? (over $6,000,000,000,000.00 in additional debt created since 1963)
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Because despite our all our knowledge and wisdom in economics, congress can't grasp the simple concept that money does not grow on trees and they spend more than they take in.
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Why hasn't the Fed ever been audited? |
It has been. Here's a GAO audit report right here:
http://www.gao.gov/cgi-bin/getrpt?GAO-02-774 |
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| ogvh5150 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Monetary Reform online archive of National Geographic article
Do Banks Really Create Money Out of Thin Air?
By Peter T. White — National Geographic
According to some, banks only loan out depositors’ money. But, in fact, they create what they loan out, based on a system known as ‘fractional reserve banking’. This is explained quite succinctly in the following excerpt from the January 1993 edition of National Geographic Magazine, entitled, The Power of Money by Peter T. White, Assistant Editor. (Pages 83-86)
Bills and coins make up about 8 percent of the U.S. money supply — the rest is in bank accounts, including checkbook money; at this writing the sum total is 3.5 trillion dollars, says the Fed — the Federal Reserve System, which is the central bank of the government of the United States — and that is three billion more than a month ago. This is how that happens. Every business day, after a telephone conference call at 11:15 a.m., the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, acting on directives from the Federal Open Market Committee at Fed headquarters in Washington, buys U.S. government securities from major banks and brokerage houses, or sells some — usually U.S. Treasury bills, which in effect are government promissory notes.
Say today the Fed buys a hundred million dollars in Treasury bills from those big securities dealers, who keep a stock of them to trade with the public. When the Fed pays the dealers, a hundred million dollars will thereby be added to the country’s money supply, because the dealers will be credited that amount by their banks, which now have that much more on deposit. But where did the Fed get that hundred million dollars ? “We created it,” a Fed official tells me. He means that anytime the central bank writes a check, so to speak, it creates money. “It’s money that didn’t exist before,” he says. Is there any limit on that ? “No limit. Only the good judgement and the conscience of the responsible Federal Reserve people.” And where did they get this vast authority? “It was delegated to them in the Federal Reserve Act of 1913, based on the Constitution, Article I, Section 8. ‘Congress shall have the power .. to coin money, regulate the value thereof ...’
Now watch how that Fed-created money lets our commercial banking system create even more. The Fed requires banks to put aside a portion of their depositors’ funds as reserves. Say this reserve ratio is set at 10 percent — then for every $1,000 in new deposits, a bank must keep at least $100 in reserves but can loan out the rest, namely $900. On the bank’s books this loan remains as an asset, earning interest until it is paid off. The customer who got the loan is likely to spend it right away, say for a used car. The car dealer deposits the $900 check in his bank, which then has an additional $900 in reserves and can in turn loan out 90 percent of that — $810. And so on and on, until the original $1,000 put into one bank may enable dozens of banks to issue a total of $9,000 in new loans.
Thus a hundred million dollars injected by the Fed into the commercial banking system could theoretically stimulate the appearance of 900 million dollars in new checkbook money — money that didn’t exist before. And it’s all built on the assumption that the system is sound.
Reprinted with permission from the National Geographic Society. |
This is called fractional reserve banking.
| quote: | Originally posted by Bill Still from “The Money Masters: How International Bankers Gained Control of America” documentary video:
Until we stop talking about 'deficits' and government spending, and start talking about whom creates and controls how much money we have, it's just a shell game, a complete and utter deception. It won't matter if we pass an ironclad amendment to the Constitution mandating a balanced budget. Our situation is only going to get worse until we root out the cause at its source." |
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| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by ogvh5150
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Yup and the fractional reserve banking system is what enables you to take out a loan to buy a car or a mortgage to purchase a house. Reduce the money supply by requiring banks to hold 100% reserves and several things would happen:
A)Banks would not be able to give out the amount of loans people demand due to restrictions in supply.
B)Consequentely banks would be selective over who they grant loans to ... effectively reducing loans to be class selective.
C)Simple supply and demand would allow banks to charge a premium and raise interest rates to phenomenal levels. |
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| ogvh5150 |
Federal Reserve notes are fiat money. They are promissory notes. They are I.O.U.'s.
Former US presidential candidate Charles Collins:
"Right now, it's perpetuated by the Federal Reserve making us borrow the money from them, at interest, to pay the interest that's already accumulated. So, we cannot get out of debt the way we're going now.”
How much more simpler can it be put? To think that the Fed is the best thing since sliced bread is a very scary thought. Everything that is based on fractional reserve banking teeters on edge.
Larry Bates former member of the Tennessee House of Representatives and former Chair of the Committee on Banking and Commerce:
“I can tell you right now that there is going to be a crash of unprecedented proportions- a crash like we have never seen before in this country. The greatest shock of this decade is that more people are about to lose more money than at any time before in history, but the second greatest shock will be the incredible amount of money a relatively small group of people will make at the same time. You see, in periods of economic upheaval, in periods of economic crisis, wealth is not destroyed-it is merely transferred" |
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| Trancer-X |
I wonder how future generations will be able to survive with the ever burgeoning national debt?
| quote: | United States Congressional Record - March 17, 1993 - Vol. #33, page H-1303 - Speaker- Rep. James Traficant, Jr. (Ohio) addressing the House:
"Mr. Speaker, we are here now in chapter 11. Members of Congress are official trustees presiding over the greatest reorganization of any Bankrupt entity in world history, the U.S. Government. We are setting forth hopefully, a blueprint for our future. There are some who say it is a coroner's report that will lead to our demise." |
explain away, occ ;) |
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| Trancer-X |
| quote: | Originally posted by ogvh5150
Former US presidential candidate Charles Collins:
"Right now, it's perpetuated by the Federal Reserve making us borrow the money from them, at interest, to pay the interest that's already accumulated. So, we cannot get out of debt the way we're going now.”
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It doesn't come in much plainer language than that!!! |
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| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by ogvh5150
Federal Reserve notes are fiat money. They are promissory notes. They are I.O.U.'s.
Former US presidential candidate Charles Collins:
"Right now, it's perpetuated by the Federal Reserve making us borrow the money from them, at interest, to pay the interest that's already accumulated. So, we cannot get out of debt the way we're going now.”
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LOL the federal reserve perpetuates the national debt with interest payments? Hehe that's a new one. Ok first, the federal reserve only holds a fraction of the national debt, somewhere around 10%. Therefore the majority of the interest payments go to other bond holders.
Second, the federal reserve refunds the interest on federal reserve notes to the treasury department. Here look at their annual report:
http://www.federalreserve.gov/board...nual03/ar03.pdf
Go down to page 270 and it's the line item entitled, "Payments to U.S Treasury (interest on Federal Reserve notes)".
Third, whatever surplus the federal reserve has at the end of the year goes to the treasury department!!!
And last, CONGRESS is the one responsible for the national debt. They are the ones that set the budget and set taxes. It's right in the constitution if you want to read it.
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How much more simpler can it be put? To think that the Fed is the best thing since sliced bread is a very scary thought. Everything that is based on fractional reserve banking teeters on edge.
Larry Bates former member of the Tennessee House of Representatives and former Chair of the Committee on Banking and Commerce:
“I can tell you right now that there is going to be a crash of unprecedented proportions- a crash like we have never seen before in this country. The greatest shock of this decade is that more people are about to lose more money than at any time before in history, but the second greatest shock will be the incredible amount of money a relatively small group of people will make at the same time. You see, in periods of economic upheaval, in periods of economic crisis, wealth is not destroyed-it is merely transferred" |
Sigh ... is this the same Larry Bates who's a religious fundy that claims that the "New World Order" is leading us to socialism through the evil UN?
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Larry Bates, astute publisher of Monetary and Economic Review journal, in his book The New Economic Disorder, touches on this plan. He writes, "I have said, for many years that the term ‘New World Order’ is merely a code word for one-world socialism, with an elite ruling class to govern the rest of us under their demonic system." Bates also believes that, "The mechanism that has been set up to manage us all is a world government, an antichrist system, headquartered in the United Nations."
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/food.htm
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Yup, that's the same ignorant hick who's a disillusioned supporter of bush:
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One well-known Christian talk radio host, Dr. Larry Bates of "Unraveling the New World Order" has consistently defended the work of President G.W. Bush, by continually mentioning all the good he has done. "Connect the dots" he tells us. When it comes to any good our Christian conservative Republican president has done for America, I say, "Connect the dot!" When callers into this national show relentlessly remind the host as well as the listening audience of the continued bad policies coming out of the Oval Office, he snaps back by blaming the presidents advisers.
http://www.illinoisconstitutionparty.com/editorials/48
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Lol fundies ... a constant amusement to me.
Anyway I don't know how I can make this any simpler ... you don't seem to understand what the Fed does or how it operates. |
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| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by Trancer-X
I wonder how future generations will be able to survive with the ever burgeoning national debt?
explain away, occ ;) |
That's easy to explain ... they won't hehe. That's why I'm a deficit hawk ... Kerry is no gem, but Bush is simply the most irresponsible fiscal manager I've ever seen. ;)
Oh well I'm out ... my house caught on fire (an electrical fire) and now I don't have electricity for a few days. Therefore no posting until Monday at work :(. |
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| Trancer-X |
So basically this could all be a repeat of what happened in regards to the subversion of England by the Rothschild's.
Gain surreptitious control over the banking system of a country
Make exhorbitant loans which are never expected to be paid off
Use an unregulated information collection agency or program (i.e. - international and domsetic espionage)
Steer foreign policy towards preemptive war
Make loads of money off of both sides while weakening said country's economy
Give loans to the defeated country (for reconstruction efforts, etc)
Create a strong dependency for more loans
Bask in your omnipotence and then repeat steps 1-7 |
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| Trancer-X |
When Benjamin Franklin was Ambassador to the Court of Saint James, he was asked, 'Why is that you Colonists are prospering? Since you are all misfits and outcasts of society, how is it that you are all getting along so well and prospering?' At the time there was 100% employment in the Colonies and in response Ben Franklin replied, 'Because we issue currency according to the needs of the people, we spent our money into circulation, none of it is borrowed!' Shortly thereafter the Rothschild Bank of England promised King George III three-percent of all English Pounds with his picture on them if he would force the American Colonies to use Bank of England Notes! Within a year, there was 30% unemployment and a 'tax' on everything to pay the interest/ usury to the Bank of England! The rest is history leading up to the first Act of the new Congress, the Banking Act of 1792 to issue interest free currency in the Colonies!
Then came the demand from Alexander Hamilton to permit 'private banking', connected to the Bank of England, to co-exist with the United States Treasury Bank ~ so a twenty-year charter was issued that expired in 1812. When it was not renewed, the British attacked, burned & sacked Washington, D.C., and after four years, America agreed to another twenty-year charter that expired in 1836. Andrew Jackson hated the private banks, refused to renew their charter, had several attempts on his life, yet managed to survive. When New England cotton industrialists agitated against slavery to block southern cotton growers from establishing their own cotton industries in Mississippi, the South threatened succession. To block succession, Abraham Lincoln tried to raise an army but the Bank of England wanted 24% interest/usury, and another charter, but Lincoln's Secretary of the Treasury noted that 'Nations are Sovereign, not Banks', so $400 Million in 'U.S. Notes' were printed, interest-free, which later became the 'Lincoln Greenbacks', now called 'Silver Certificates', and these existed as 'interest-free' currency until taken out of circulation by Lyndon Baines Johnson as his first 'executive order' in 1963! John F. Kennedy attempted the same as Lincoln, i.e., print 'U.S. Notes', interest-free, to the tune of $5 Billion in two-dollar bills to 'buy-back' the Federal Reserve Bank from the Bank of England ~ but he too met the same fate as that of Lincoln ~ a hail of bullets and death! And the 'Kennedy U.S. Notes' also expired in the same 'executive order' on the same day in 1963! No more interest-free currency!
http://www.reformpartyusa-ag.org/To...sues_hq_004.htm |
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| ogvh5150 |
The Fed deals in fiat. Even if we hold some kind of value it does not have any overall worth. Your rubber duckie could hold value to you but not to me unless I change my mind about your little rubber duckie. Two parties have to consent to give it value even though it has no intristic value.
| quote: | History of Monetary Policy
A very large development in the 'technology' of money was the advent of 'fiat currency'. This uses the concept that money is worth whatever anyone thinks it is worth, so the government prints a limited supply of it and everyone accepts that that is money. This allows the money supply to grow and shrink as the government desires it to do, in accordance with the government's monetary policy.
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Then you turn it into some Bush/Kerry thing. The Fed knows no political parties.
What was the first thing, as President, did George W do?
He had an appointment with Mr. Greenspan.
| quote: | | Well I’ve spent 4 years studying economics at the college level |
What is this supposed to mean?
They taught you the sky was orange.
Look at the BALANCE SHEET of the same pdf in question:
2003
Total assets:
209,640,184
Total liabilities (and cumulative results of operations):
209,640,184
This is about a 35% increase over 2002
2002
Total assets:
154,278,827
Total liabilities (and cumulative results of operations):
154,278,827
This is about a 15% decrease over 2001
2001
Total assets:
181,875,637
Total liabilities (and cumulative results of operations):
181,875,637
This is about a 94.5% increase over 2000
2000
Total assets:
93,530,693
Total liabilities (and fund balance):
93,530,693
Who's fooling who? Don't tell me about a balanced ledger. I see here a numbers game. I have seen financial statements from other corporations (gov't agencies as well) with DIFFERENT assets to liabilities numbers. I have also seen some with EQUAL assets to liabilities numbers. Don't let the numbers scare you. Remember it is a fiat system. Money created out of nothing but the stroke of a pen and a ledger entry.
What attributed to the sudden increase in assets in 2001?
Numbers listed are in the millions. So 93,530,693 is actually 93.5 Trillion Dollars.
"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them, will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered." - Thomas Jefferson
Ironically as quoted from solomonstemple.com |
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| torontotrance |
| Canada's national debt is 528 Billion or the defecit of the US in a year. So I got a better idea, since all your money is going to waste anyway, give it to us. Doubt it would work tho. |
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