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whats a good *first* synth to purchase? (pg. 2)
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| DJ Pete |
| quote: | Originally posted by Pjotr G
I'm surpised nobody proposed the Roland JV-1080
It's like pretty standard for a trance setup and it can do alot, a virus is Phat too, but it's more something to expand your studio with |
ROLAND - JV1080
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I added in the JV 1080 as they are like workhorse multitimbrel synth modules of legendary status almost...
The JV2080 is more of the same with more wave ram, up to 8 boards....but whilst a great synth... it's overkill a bit.... whereas the older 1080, has the same polyphony... and can be had cheapish if you need a big digital synth......
So the 1080.... basically they are good all rounder work synths... giving 64-voice polyphony and 16-part multitimbral capability,.... already famed for their filters, Roland's 32 bit processing in the JV's gives smooth as you want from digital sweeps... not too steppy.... so you can controller-it away and it'll be smooth.... you've got about 448 waveforms to play with onboard
This is an excellent synth for those who want to do some all round music, yet get plenty of sounds for all eventualities..... cos with a few boards, you can get dance drums & techno & vintage stuff etc...
The top comes off, and you can plug in up to four SR-JV80 Series wave expansion boards that the JV's share with the XP80/50...to augment the 8 meg already onboard..... giving a wacking amount of rom samples from dance drums & sounds, thru world music & classical, to vintage synths and whatever you like....They released one in the summer called techno.. for what it's worth.... but naturally , the synthesis is powerful enuff (and even more so with any added board or card waves.)... to create anything from simple to deep sounds... and all the piano's, organs & strings etc you like.... it is all cursors and menu's of course.... so not a great... "Rush-it-and--with-it" unit....but it'll take controllers once your sounds are set up....
now.... it is a JV... and it all does have a sound... an overall gloss that is Roland...JV... that comes with all units... they have a sound... not withstanding that, it's a good digital choice if you see a bargain one around.... if you have maybe a sampler & some very specific dance synth/s... and want to add a digital unit for layers, weirdness and a massive potential pallette.... try the JV.... it has to be said tho, the boards are about 2 and a 1/2 each .... (new), so getting some secondhand added will obviously push up the price....
Anyhow... lots of onboard multi effects... some of them are insertable.......8 reverb types, 1 chorus, 40 EFX.... its got a preset memory of 4 x 128 patches & 8 rhythm sets, with 64 performance setups...... you've got 128 user memories, which sags a bit compared to the K2000 say, with it's 999....
No disk drive... groan... i feel a 'data-card' selling exercise coming on... yup...M-512 datacards only unless you wanna dump the stuff over.....hey... it'll also take a pcm wave card with another 2 mb of waveforms...i think these cards are interchangable with other Roland synths......
You got midi in,out,thru, ..... 6 outs....mix-out-L+R.....Out-1-L+R.... out-2 -L+R....... plus phones.........
there ya go..... a workhorse..... and really, even in todays madness of 256 note poly units, it is a good synth if you've got a bit of cash, and want a powerful digital module with flexibility and classy sounds.... however..if you dont want to synthesis with the JV, and want more instant 'dance' sounds. then to expand it up to become more of a 'dance sounds' unit, would mean adding a few boards, the techno & vintage maybe....... and then the price goes up... anyone selling it s/h with added boards will want more... then i can compare it to an old secondhand k2000 as a choice, cos with a board or two in the JV, it comes up secondhand to about the same price as an old versioned k2000 which can load samples to get drums from the akai range or formatted disks.....
So comparing the two as a good digital synth , i'd lean toward the K for dance... it's got much less polyphony, at 24 notes..... but not so much an issue depending on the music you do... loads samples tho as raw akai files... no keymaps... but you can build custom drum kit & load other samples.... it can do ruff sounds ......
Thought that might be worth a note if you're looking at mid 1000 quid digital synths to do drums and sounds to build round.... the K has a disk drive too... !... but loaded with a few cards, the JV offers huge waveform choices.... & more polyphony.... much more of a full production tool.....and no loading disks and stuff... the cards & sounds are in there when you boot.... sure you can upgrade the K with a dance waves board & sample facilities etc... but we're talking comparisons at a street price similar of around 600-800 for the expanded JV (with say 2 cards)... comparing to a unexpanded K2000 with maybe 4mb of ram....
anyways... the JV...... has to be listed....
The JV 1080 and the Microwave XT are
Digital synths, they came along in the early 80's and subjectively blew people away with their 'realistic' sound when imitating real sounds like piano's. Gettting a decent 'real' piano or other sound had previously involved buying samplers with all their loading and setting up etc, or settling for a rough but passable approximation supplied by the yamaha Dx series; the previous holder of the 'best cheap/small/transportable piano' sound on the market. But besides doing great real sounds, these synths also offer another huge pallette of sounds to your arsenal, and in the ever moving search for new sounds crossed with the current euro-trance explosion and it's classical non-techno leanings, these synths like the classic Roland D50 are making a comeback in peoples minds & armouries. Digital synths are your source for the weird and wonderful - pizz string attacks with fat booming trance sawtooth decays, harsh or thin and subtle sonic sounds… and they do superb pads 7 atmosphere's… You gotta have at least one of everything, and whilst you can live without a good digital synth fine, if you are into deep pads, sounds artefacts and sonic sculpting, these types of synths yeild superb results in the right context and offer a great sonic balance & depth alongside any 'Real' or 'Virtual' analog synths in your mix.
WALDORF - MICROWAVE XT
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The famous Microwave XT.... It's basically a Microwave-2, plus the addition of some 44 dedicated controller knobs & dials transmitting midi data... The unit is also upgraded from the MW2 to have a 5U rack surface area which is also tablemounting dj-mixer/plinth style, and as you can see it comes in black & orange colours... The extra rack-space compared to the Microwave-2 is required to facilitate all the extra controllers which upgrades & makes the XT a very powerful instrument with fast editing and hands on control thruought...
Well, what can you say about hese things?... One of the worlds most respected synth companies it would be fair to say, and the Microwave family is up there with the cream of digital synth's.... These MicroWave's family give everything from hard lead lines to the truly weird & wonderful - If you only have to buy ONE synth, look seriously at the Microwave range.
Spec's
Multi Mode with 8 individual instruments
10 voices
128 multis
256 sounds
64 ROM wavetables
32 RAM wavetables
64 waves per wavetable
500 waves
arpeggiator, syncable to MIDI Clock
programmable arpeggiator rhythm pattern per sound
4 integrated effect units (1 Chorus available for any instrument in multi mode, 1 separate effect for each of the first 3 instruments in multi mode)
all parameters real time controllable through MIDI continous controller
1 dial for page access
44 dials for parameter changes
2 buttons for parameter changes
1 master volume potentiometer
1 Play / Shift button
5 buttons for mode selection (3 buttons for "Sound", 1 button for "Multi", 1 button for "Global")
1 Standby button with alert function to assure that all edited sounds are stored
MIDI In / Out / Thru
1 stereo input
2 stereo outputs
19"/5U, desktop unit and rack-mountable
Parameters Per Voice
2 oscillators
oscillator synchronization
oscillator FM, fully modulatable
2 wave generators
noise generator
ring modulator
adjustable quality levels for aliasing, interpolation and clipping
mixer, all levels (Wave 1, Wave 2, Noise, Ring Modulation, External In) modulatable with high resolution
2 multi mode filters, connected serially
filter 1:
low pass 12dB
low pass 24dB
band pass 12dB
high pass 12dB
sinus shaper with low pass filter 12dB
wave shaper with low pass filter 12dB (selected wavetable determines the available shaper waves)
Sample & Hold with low pass filter 12dB (real time sample rate reduction down to 23Hz)
dual parallel filter with 12dB low pass and 12dB band pass, cutoff offset parameter for band pass
12dB low pass filter with filter FM (cutoff modulation through oscillator 2)
filter 2:
low pass 6dB
high pass 6dB
stereo amplifier, fully modulatable
8-time/level wave envelope with loop function, "one shot" mode, times and levels modulatable
ADSR filter envelope, each phase modulatable separately
ADSR amplifier envelope, each phase modulatable separately
4-time/level free envelope, bipolar, one shot mode, times and levels modulatable
all envelopes work with separate trigger- and voice-modes, either monophonic or polyphonic:
single trigger with zero return
single trigger with return to last level
retrigger with zero return
retrigger with return to last level
dual mode (two voices per note)
unisono (all free voices at once)
two LFOs, each with different shapes, syncable to MIDI clock, LFO 2 can be synced to LFO 1
modulation matrix with 16 slots, all sources and destinations of the MicroWave and the Pulse plus new connections
4 freely usable modifiers with several operators and algorithms
Physical Controller knobs & dials
Oscillator 1
Octave (with clicks)
Semitone (with clicks)
Detune
FM Amount
Oscillator 2
Octave (with clicks)
Semitone (with clicks)
Detune
Sync (button)
Waves 1 / 2
Wavetable (with clicks)
Wave 1
Startwave
Env. Amount
Wave 2
Startwave
Env. Amount
Mix
Wave 1
Ringmod
Wave 2
Noise
Filter
Cutoff
Resonance
Type (with clicks)
Keytrack
Env. Amount
Env. Velocity
Amplifier
Volume
Env. Velocity
LFO 1
Speed
Shape (with clicks)
LFO 2
Speed
Shape (with clicks)
Mod Amount
Mod 1
Mod 2
Glide
Time
Active (button)
Envelopes - (8 multi purpose dials)
Wave Env 1-4
Time 1
Level 1
Time 2
Level 2
Time 3
Level 3
Time 4
Level 4
Wave Env 5-8
Time 5
Level 5
Time 6
Level 6
Time 7
Level 7
Time 8
Level 8
Free Env
Time 1
Level 1
Time 2
Level 2
Time 3
Sustain
Release
Rel. Level
Filter / Amplifier
Attack
Decay
Sustain
Release
Attack
Decay
Sustain
Release
Other Microwave II/XT OS features:
Adjustable Aliasing: "listen to aliasing distortion just like in the dawn of the first digital musical instruments like the PPG Wave or the first Microwave."
Adjustable Time Quantization: "sometimes one might wish to add additional harshness to the lower end, just like the first microwave did, and this is what Time Quantization is for: The wave interpolation is overridden in five steps to get this extra fizziness."
2 Clipping Modes:
Saturate - "This is the kind of distortion classic analog circuits will generate."
Overflow - "The polarity of the signal's part above the maximum level will be negated."
Random Patch Generator added (OS 1.303)
Oscillator FM added (OS 1.307) - Osc1 is Carrier and Osc2 Modulator
Arpeggiator Notes can be sent to MIDI out. (OS 1.500) - Adjustable globally in Sound Mode or by Instrument in Multi Mode. |
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| Pjotr G |
| quote: | Originally posted by patticus
ok, thanks, so that roland jv is a rack synth? or its a controller?
cuz i WOULD need one of the mentioned midi controllers even if i got that right..
it doesnt matter so much what kind of keyboard i get, right.. i mean i have about as much musical training as anyone, so obviously more octaves + features = good, but editing-wise.. would it really matter, in terms of capabilities? |
The JV is a rack synth...and when looking for a midi controller MAKE SURE it is velocity-sensitive. Look out for one with aftertouch too. And the more midi-assignable pots or sliders, the better. The very least it should have pitch bend and modulation.
And DJ Pete, you should write a book ;) |
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| Eugene |
| So IN CONCLUSION, what is a good keyboard-and-synth (in one) to get, with lots of features and a good price? |
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| patticus |
damn pete, that WAS a book you wrote.. im gonna have to bookmark it.. heh.
thanks. and pjotr too.. so basically if im starting out, i should seriously look at that stuff anyways, or will it overwhelm me?
is it like spinning, where you shouldnt try to start out w/ *budget beginner* equipment because it really wont help you get anywhere..
in which case id probably save up for a nord lead or jv or microwave something.. not to mention a midi controller..
btw sorry i dont understand half the techie stuff in there pete, heh, but i'll go thru it again.
Thank you for your input. :)
oh ok so what should the MAIN criteria be for distinguishing btw rack synths... like, voices, or notes, or handling capabilities etc?
like when i go to the store and some guy starts spouting out , what should i pay attn to. |
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| DJ Pete |
| quote: | Originally posted by Eugene
So IN CONCLUSION, what is a good keyboard-and-synth (in one) to get, with lots of features and a good price? |
WALDORF - MICROWAVE XTK
The Microwave XTK Version extends the Microwave family to include a keyboard version. This unit is basically a Microwave XT spec, with added keys... Same amount of controller knobs & dials, same spec's, poly & multi-parts etc...
49 key keyboard, velocity and release velocity, monophonic aftertouch
Pitch Bend wheel
Modulation wheel
:) |
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| DJ Pete |
| quote: | Originally posted by patticus
oh ok so what should the MAIN criteria be for distinguishing btw rack synths... like, voices, or notes, or handling capabilities etc?
like when i go to the store and some guy starts spouting out , what should i pay attn to. |
I will make it short, quite simply let you ear tell you what sounds good.
Go to a music store that sells well know synths and play with the presets and turn all them knobs, just see what you can get out of it.
And one thing don't buy it on the spot, come back 2,3 times just to really work it.
I can give you all the info and my ider on what I think is best, but in the end its all up to you.
:) |
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| Ayianapa |
| quote: | Originally posted by Eugene
So IN CONCLUSION, what is a good keyboard-and-synth (in one) to get, with lots of features and a good price? |
It's up to you what is a good synth and what is not. You're the one who's gonna use it. The most important thing is that you like the sound of the gear you are buying, because that is what really matters. But a nice price, great effects and cool features are always good.
And I don't think the Waldorf XT is good as your first synth. I have one myself and it's not your "bread and butter" synth. It's good for those sound you are likely not to get anywhere else :) |
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| amit |
i one question. Do these synths come with drums beats?
Okay if i had 2 thousand dollars (US)! what set up would i get? |
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| Ayianapa |
They don't come with beats, but they come with drum patches (instruments). You can get some cool 909 kicks out of virtual analogs (like the virus, nordlead and nova) but I think their hihats suck, at least on my synths. So, for beats I'd get a cracked version of Rebirth or Fruityloops. Rebirth has got a TR-909 and TR-808 which is the best for trance and techno. The classic drum sounds :D :D
Another option would be to get a sampler for beats. Perhaps a cheap Akai S2000 if you're going hardware, or if you prefer the cheaper solution, software samplers, you got the EXS24 sampler for Logic Audio, or the Halion (or something like that) sampler for Cubase. I personally use EXS24 and I think it's amazing. There are other samples too, but I don't know their names. Yeah, and there's Giga Sampler.
You could also get one of Roland's Grooveboxes. They have a lot of cool drum samples which you can make some fat beats on. I have the MC-303 and it's ok. You can get the MC-303 REALLY cheap second hand. You can get them for £200 I think.
I agree with DJ Pete that you have to check out and try the gear in the stores before you buy. I think it's important to know 100% what you are buying. Even though everybody says the virus is the best synth you can get, it's not sure it's the best you.
For $2000 you can get a killer setup. I'd get a cracked version of Logic Audio with EXS24 (just remember to buy the software when you get signed to Black Hole :D :D :D ) and a virtual analog. But, you have to find the gear that works with you.
I've learned a LOT of websites like www.dancetech.com & www.sospubs.co.uk . Check out their forums. The guys at these sites basicly knows everything about gear and making music :p
Take my advice: know what you are buying!
I hope this helped. |
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| Ayianapa |
Yeah, I'd like to add one thing.
With all the great software which is available today there's really no need for hardware gear. But it's easier to impress your friends with hardware.. hehe |
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| Pjotr G |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ayianapa
Yeah, I'd like to add one thing.
With all the great software which is available today there's really no need for hardware gear. But it's easier to impress your friends with hardware.. hehe |
Uhuhhhh :rolleyes:
I guess that's why ALL the big producers have a $200000 setup. To impress their friends and all.
Plus I'd like to add that for drums you can also get a drumbox which Ayianapa forgot to mention (?). the 909 and 808 are way cool but not something for the beginning producer (hiiiigh price, low on features). But technology has moved on and for $500 you should be able to get a box that can only bang out beats, but serious ones...Boss and the likes.
And some wavetable synths (like roland jv-series) do have drumkits me thinks (pcm sample based) |
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| Synergy |
Does anyone have any opinions about the
Novation SuperNova 2
vs
Waldorf XT
? |
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