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get ready, afghanistan about to be attacked
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| Lynx |
arggg...i'm gonna post an article i read that was really good on this matter.
different perspective of the issue...
Well worth the Read.....
The following was written by Tamim Ansary, an Afghani-American writer.
He is also one of the most brilliant people I know in this life.
When he writes, I read.
When he talks, I listen.
Here is his take on Afghanistan and the whole mess we are in.
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I've been hearing a lot of talk about "bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age." Ronn Owens, on KGO Talk Radio today, allowed that this would mean killing innocent people, people who had nothing to do with this atrocity, but "we're at war, we have to accept collateral damage. What else can we do? Minutes later I heard some TV pundit discussing whether we "have the belly to do what must be done."
And I thought about the issues being raised especially hard because I am from Afghanistan, and even though I've lived here for 35 years I've never lost track of what's going on there. So I want to tell anyone who will listen how it all looks from where I'm standing.
I speak as one who hates the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. There is no doubt in my mind that these people were responsible for the atrocity in New York.
I agree that something must be done about those monsters.
But the Taliban and Ben Laden are not Afghanistan. They're not even the government of Afghanistan.
The Taliban are a cult of ignorant psychotics who took over Afghanistan in 1997. Bin Laden is a political criminal with a plan. When you think Taliban, think Nazis. When you think Bin Laden, think Hitler. And when you think "the people of Afghanistan" think "the Jews in the concentration camps." It's not only that the Afghan people had nothing to do with this atrocity. They were the first victims of the perpetrators. They would exult if someone would come in there, take out the Taliban and clear out the rats nest of international thugs holed up in their country. Some say, why don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow the Taliban? The answer is, they're starved, exhausted, hurt, incapacitated, suffering. A few years ago, the United Nations estimated that there are 500,000 disabled orphans in Afghanistan - a country with no economy, no food.
There are millions of widows. And the Taliban has been burying these widows alive in mass graves. The soil is littered with land! mines, the farms were all destroyed by the Soviets. These are a few of the reasons why the Afghan people have not
overthrown the Taliban. We come now to the question of bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age.
Trouble is, that's been done. The Soviets took care of it already. Make the Afghans suffer?
They're already suffering. Level their houses? Done. Turn their schools into piles of rubble? Done.
Eradicate their hospitals? Done. Destroy their infrastructure? Cut them off from medicine and health care? Too late. Someone already did all that. New bombs would only stir the rubble of earlier bombs.
Would they at least get the Taliban? Not likely. In today's Afghanistan, only the Taliban eat, only they have the means to move around. They'd slip away and hide. Maybe the bombs would get some of those disabled orphans, they don't move too fast, they don't even have wheelchairs. But flying over Kabul and dropping bombs wouldn't really be a strike against the criminals who did this horrific thing.
Actually it would only be making common cause with the Taliban-by
raping once again the people they've been raping all this time
So what else is there? What can be done, then? Let me now speak with true fear and trembling.
The only way to get Bin Laden is to go in there with ground troops. When people speak of "having the belly to do what needs to be done" they're thinking in terms of having the belly to kill as many as needed.
Having the belly to overcome any moral qualms about killing innocent people. Let's pull our heads out of the sand. What's actually on the table is Americans dying. And not just because some Americans would die fighting their way through Afghanistan to Bin Laden's hideout. It's much bigger than that folks.
Because to get any troops to Afghanistan, we'd have to go through Pakistan. Would they let us? Not likely. The conquest of Pakistan would have to be first. Will other Muslim nations just stand by? You see where I'm going. We're fli! rting with a world war between Islam and the West.
And guess what: that's Bin Laden's program. That's exactly what he wants.
That's why he did this.
Read his speeches and statements. It's all right there. He really believes Islam would beat the west.
It might seem ridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize the world into Islam and the West, he's got a billion soldiers. If the west wreaks a holocaust in those lands, that's a billion people with nothing left to lose, that's even better from Bin Laden's point of view. He's probably wrong, in the end the west would win, whatever
that would mean, but the war would last for years and millions would die, not just theirs but ours. Who has the belly for that?
Bin Laden does. Anyone else?
Tamim Ansary |
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| barry_sheen |
Very Well written......has changed my view!
But still, whats the solution? |
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| Lynx |
| quote: | Originally posted by barry_sheen
Very Well written......has changed my view!
But still, whats the solution? |
that was the point of posting this article. :) just in case people see it so that they do realize that this is the reality of our situation.
as for your question...i really don't know...all i can do is pray... |
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| hypronix |
Thanx Lynx for the information.
I guess he is the first that has the power to say this to the world. This "collateral damage" bull was used by the americans in Bosnia too. It's like they would do the same thing, yet under a different name, just because they are americans. and this is not the first time this would happen. Hey, maybe the terrorists thought of the same thing, collateral damage.
from the beginning one could tell that Bin Laden had some plan. a very good plan. because he messed up with the (aparent) world first military power. yet, if a war ignits, it will be a fierce battle. remember Afghanistan's history. Think of the religious princiuples of the Islam. And think how many enemies the americans have.
What would be the result? I am not so sure the west will win as Mr. Tamim Ansary is. It would seem obvious, but maybe it is another move which Bin Laden has predicted, that the americans will start fighting imediatelly... |
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| plastikE |
omg, you guys are starting to sound like you are pro-taliban. I believe some one posted: "remember, the Taliban and Bin Laden aren't Afghanistan." umm, yea basically they are. that's just like saying :"america isn't the usa." sure, there are innocent people in Afghanistan, but if they are so innocent then why do they live in a country who's religion believes ''western civilization is evil, and fighting/dying in a wholy war would bring them to a higher level of ecstacy in heaven."
and people who say : " Russia didn't succeed in Afghanistan when they tried to take it over, so the same thing will happen to America if they tried to invade..." DONT FORGET, AMERICA FREAKIN SUPPLIED AFGHANISTAN WITH WEAPONS AND TRAINING TO HELP THEM DEFEAT RUSSIA. Also, don't forget we have around 10 times the military power to defeat the Afghani's, not to mention we have NATO supporting us, an airforce (which Afghanistan doesn't have), a navy (which afghanistan doesn't have) and nuclear tactics (which afghanistan doesnt have)...
go compare America's military to Afghanistans (get some statistics)...and remember: we WONT supply Afghanistan with weapons and 'training' to defend themselves this time (like we did for them against Russia)
my 200 cents |
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| BLUEGIRL |
| quote: | | Also, don't forget we have around 10 times the military power to defeat the Afghani's, not to mention we have NATO supporting us, an airforce (which Afghanistan doesn't have), a navy (which afghanistan doesn't have) and nuclear tactics (which afghanistan doesnt have)... |
then why is amercia freaking out about this if they're not genuinely scared of losing this "freedom" i keep hearing about?
america's ego took a severe bashing and so now, like the proverbial jock that is america, "we" are gonna go beat some ass. how f*ing neaderthal.
i love that article that lynx posted. the comparison to the nazis i think is a very good way of thinking about this. in the past few years, the afghani people (esp women & children) have suffered untold miseries at the hands of their gov't. america's stupid war for "freedom" will just be kicking the afghani people when theyre down to make "us" look like "we" don't take no crap. bin laden's obviously not stupid--he's probably not even physically in afghanistan.
:whip:WAR IS STUPID:whip: period.
if the gov'ts want to have dick-measuring contests, they should go do it on a far-away planet somewhere and leave the people alone. |
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| CyberDragon |
Wow!
Great insight with the articles. Remember, this runs much deeper than America's Ego. More Americans died in one day, compared to any other conflict in our history. Almost 10 percent of all Viet Nam Deaths in one day! This is not a Smudge to American's Ego, this is a attempt at destroying our nation and western ideals. Our way of life which lets us sit on the computer dowloading trance music for most of our days(LOL). It's difficult to say, if a peaceful resolve will even be possible. This cancer in the middle east will not be going away anytime soon. Furthermore,this is not just an American issue. This wound falls on most western nations. It's just America that took this tragic event for that day. Other nations could have been selected just as easily. However you look at it, someone is going to get screwed over. I doubt it will be the USA when this all clears. Does it ever end?
PLUR |
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| AnotherWay83 |
that was a nice article...but i already posted that same article!!! :) (thread was "an afghani-american's take")...it made sum excellent points, that guy is brilliant
anyway its good that u posted it cos sum mo ppl can read it
i wanna address a number of points raised by plastike that i dont agree with...
1)didn't u read the article lynx posted already?? anyway, in case u haven't, the reason is that they are scared of the taliban...just the other day they showed video footage on ABC of the taliban literally slicing off people's throats and hanging them ON THE STREET for their misbehavior...women are beaten savagely even if their scarves fall off their faces BY MISTAKE...besides, most of them are starving....and the reason they still live in afghanistan is because it takes money to migrate to decent places like the usa or anywhere else...those who could have already left the land...the only ppl. left are the uneducated, downtrodden ppl...most of the taliban government is uneducated anyway...migrating to pakistan wouldn't help, because that country is hardly any better...and yes, there IS an ongoing reistance movement already in existence in afghanistan...its called the "northern alliance"...read about it in the newspapers or on the internet
2:yes, we did supply them with arms to resist the russians...but that doesn't change anything. in fact, it makes the situation that much WORSE for us, because now they know how the american military trains and fights
as for your point about how much superior the american military is...havent u been following the news?? this is NOT a conventional war...there are NO targets of any value to bomb...it was the same way with the russians, their conventional forces were far superior, but they still got their ass kicked..(even tho america supplied them with arms, they didn't supply SO many that the afghans had even more than the russians...)
but if no1 supplies the afghans with any weapons (if we can seal off the border in some way), then we have a very strong chance of defeating them completely..
peace |
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| cweb |
| I'm really glad that guys like plastikE seem to be the minority of americans at least here in this forum. |
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| Vivid Boy |
i dunno why im posting this but i got this on icq
http://vatican.***********/head-of-terrorist/
(dont click if u get sick easily)
well u now can see what alot of ppl think of terrorists and what ppl want done with them.....i must have recieved this message from over 10 ppl..=( i dunno if they find it to be comforting or what but either way theres gonna be war |
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| plastikE |
| quote: | Originally posted by BLUEGIRL
[B]
:whip:WAR IS STUPID:whip: period.
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If it wasn't for war, then you wouldn't have the freedoms and rights you do now!! Hitler would be reigning (because we would be pussies and scared to ''fight a war, because it's DUMB!!! *sigh*)....''WAR IS DUMB''....I HAVE AN IDEA!!!! LETS NOT RETALIATE AND LET THE TERRORISTS HIT US AGAIN AND DO NOTHING ABOUT IT!!! YA!!!!!
"cweb: I'm really glad that guys like plastikE seem to be the minority of americans at least here in this forum. "
would you care to tell me why instead of making an incompetent post without backing it up with facts or opinions?? *sigh* TA might as well join the taliban's side..... |
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