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City of Toronto muses banning smoking on outdoor patios (pg. 4)
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| Jayx1 |
Well if you dont see the double standard that exists in our society then i feel sorry for you.
Anyways, as for the comparisons to europe and south america. The economies of these nations are not what i am referring to here. Other than the fact that i admire the fact that these nations have the will to stand up when they are wronged, i also admire the fact that they are free to do what they will. Oh and you want to compare the telecomunications? Guess what? We have something called the CRTC. They have complete say in what tv shows we see, which channels we watch and what songs we hear. You want to talk about control? Let's talk about HBO. Oh yeah, that's illegal here.
Sure our economy is great. Ive never said otherwise. However i truely feel the social fabric of this country is going to hell.
Am I bitter that the Liberals won? Well not so much that they won but that we re-elected a government that literally stole from us. This is what saddens me. If it had been any other party I would feel the same. My personal politics are not as partisian as you may think. The Liberals just happen to be the thieves at the moment.
If my sentiment of living in a society where adults are treated like adults is offensive, i make no apology for it. The funny and ironic thing is that i am so sick of people complaining about nothing, i have ended up complaining to no end about the complainers. Read my posts and think about it.
I have lived and been in other societies where your right to function in society the way you choose is respected by the rest of society. You are entitled to make choices and face the good or bad consequences of each choice. This occurs less and less here and this is what upsets me. |
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| LoCa |
| quote: | Originally posted by E2EK1EL
that ... none smokin' thing is getting so gay now. |
agreed... wtf man :wtf:
leave us smokers well enough alone for 's sake. we already freeze our asses off smoking outside, now you want to take our right to smoke outside away?! what a joke :rolleyes: |
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| DigiNut |
Even in a pure capitalist/free-market political system, the governments primary function is to protect the rights to life and to personal property. Since the smoking patrons don't own the premises, they have no property rights to speak of. Second-hand smoke, on the other hand, has been conclusively linked to several life-threatening illnesses, so with properly conducted research (which has indeed been conducted), any government is well-justified in making this law because it protects many people's right to life and does not violate anyone's property rights.
Whether or not you like this law, Jay, you have no constitutional grounds to win this argument with. The key point you seem to be missing is that second-hand smoke directly harms others, and not in a mysterious subtle way like "discrimination" but in a very real and scientifically proven way.
I am fairly certain that removing one wall from an otherwise indoor area is by no means sufficient to keep second-hand smoke off the premises.
It is a GROSS MISINTERPRETATION of the issue to claim that the government is trying to take away your right to smoke outside. The government hasn't changed a damn thing for you personally - it has simply stated that one missing wall doesn't make an area "outdoors" at all, and rightly so, since a large part of that smoke is no doubt going to end up in the "indoor" area. |
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| Kytracid |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
Well if you dont see the double standard that exists in our society then i feel sorry for you.
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Thanks, it always livens up my day to know i have a perennial complainer feeling sorry for me. What with everything else on your plate that seems to give you gut rot, i'm suprised you have much pity left for poor ole me. :D
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Sure our economy is great. Ive never said otherwise. However i truely feel the social fabric of this country is going to hell.
Am I bitter that the Liberals won? Well not so much that they won but that we re-elected a government that literally stole from us. This is what saddens me. If it had been any other party I would feel the same. My personal politics are not as partisian as you may think. The Liberals just happen to be the thieves at the moment.
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There's always going to be thieves in power...it's called politics, and it's universal. It's sad that you haven't come to this realization yet.
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If my sentiment of living in a society where adults are treated like adults is offensive, i make no apology for it. The funny and ironic thing is that i am so sick of people complaining about nothing, i have ended up complaining to no end about the complainers. Read my posts and think about it.
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Adults shouldn't be treated as Adults ? Oh, ok...lets spoon feed them the gospel of truth as spoken by jay then. These damn pesky adults just keep thinking for themselves...I'm not really sure what to do about them.
Oh, and speaking about all those people who complain about nothing. Yes, i can see that. This board is innundated with a multitude of serial complainers, they complain about politics, about gender discrimition, the carabana, the smoking bylaws, the liberals, the parking bylaws, the immigration policies...yea, those people sure are annoying.
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I have lived and been in other societies where your right to function in society the way you choose is respected by the rest of society. You are entitled to make choices and face the good or bad consequences of each choice. This occurs less and less here and this is what upsets me. |
What's this place you speak off ? Shangrila ? Xanadu ? Utopia ... Do they allow immigrants there ?
:p
You do occasionally make some valid points. If only you didn't feel the need to compound every point over and over again, maybe some of us would actually start to take you seriously. But, i think the root of the problem is something deeper. I'd hazard a guess that you don't really have an avenue to let loose, and no one who cares to listen to your views. Quite frankly, i doubt you'll find it here given the nature of this particular forum...but hey, it's not like your going to actually heed my advice...so i'll just sign off and say we'll probably meet in another one of your 'original' threads. |
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| j_spot |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
Us Canadian sheep not only do nothing, we keep re-electing them!
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you keep saying things like this.
get the point
MOST OF US LIKE IT THIS WAY! |
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| raveed |
On one side you guys are banning smoking in clubs and bars even though those are the number one smoking hotspots and on the other you can never make cigarettes illegal simply for the reason that your economy depends to much on it ...having a tad to many double standards here are we:rolleyes:
I opposed the smoking indoor ban initially but now i actually think it was a good move not just because it prevents non smokers getting exposed to second hand smoke but also because i only see my self smoking when i need to instead of just for the heck of it but this thing about banning smoking on patios is nonsense and completely uncalled for ... fookin hell with the amount cigarettes cost here , i think we deserve a place other than our homes to smoke em ... |
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| Skipper |
| werd DIGINUT!! :D |
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| StereoPrincess |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Whether or not you like this law, Jay, you have no constitutional grounds to win this argument with. The key point you seem to be missing is that second-hand smoke directly harms others, and not in a mysterious subtle way like "discrimination" but in a very real and scientifically proven way.
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i'm surprised he hasn't yet said the "if you don't like smoke then don't go out to clubs" arguement.
predictable. |
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| Jayx1 |
Nobody has addressed the issue of smoking on patios, a place non smokers wouldnt go to anyways....
The indoor smoking arguement is over anyways... but now they are attacking outdoor smoking..
Discuss... |
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| Skipper |
What about staff on the patio?
Why do non-smokers not go on patios? Patios are not strictly smoking areas, you know. It's still a part of the venue. |
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| Orko |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kytracid
Ok, even with just my general knowledge of that area, I know that Argentina is facing some severe problems in terms of economic and fiscal policy. The governments there have historically been volitile although you are correct in stating that they have moved towards the path of democracy that country is facing some tough times ahead with curbing some very difficult recurring economic problems. Now...what's my point with all this. Well, it just so happens i've lived in a country that's faced similar economic hardships. In fact, i've lived 18 years of my life in Africa which in many ways is worse off then South America. In a third world nation, which is facing problems like unemployment, high inflation, a weak currency, no one ing cares about trivial things like smoking indoors. You do realize this right ? It's only in a developed country where those large scale problems are already under control that the government can look towards health risks of smoking, and the potential long term effects of smoking indoors. That's where Canada and the US are. That's where Japan and Western Europe are. |
i think this point has been overlooked far too often, when comparing our great country to others which have 'more freedom'. Good job kytracid!
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
Nobody has addressed the issue of smoking on patios, a place non smokers wouldnt go to anyways....
The indoor smoking arguement is over anyways... but now they are attacking outdoor smoking..
Discuss... |
again the use of 'outdoors' is skewed. Three walls, and a roof is NOT out doors. Take your home for example; knock out an outer wall, is it now an outdoor area? i think not.
If the gov says you cannot smoke, while walking down the street, while in a park, then they are attacking your right to smoke outside. |
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| StereoPrincess |
| i love going on the patio at the guv since it is hot outside but not anymore since it is worse that it ever was inside the guv in terms of people being ing rude smokers and blowing smoke directly into my face. |
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