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Democracy has Failed!
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| NeoPhono |
It's a sad day for American democracy.
The day after the highest number of voters in 40 years re-elected their president with both the popular vote and electoral college vote, democracy is on its last limb in the US. Its horrible to see such a large number of citizens make it their responsibility to go out and vote. Only in such a backwards and horrible nation like the US could so many make it their duty to voice their opinion at the polls. And to think that the results of the election weren't swayed in the least by the overwhelming number of nations that didn't like Bush really makes me question America's stance as an independent democracy.
It's a sad day for American democracy.
:rolleyes: |
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| jdat |
I'm also dissapointed but you can't blame democracy
Popular vote won and that's that :(
Now if it was rigged or something to that extent is different. |
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| Arbiter |
| Democracy failed because it's a fundamentally flawed system. Ad populum is a fallacy, remember? |
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| Epicurus |
| You do realize he's being sarcastic right? He's a rabid Bush supporter. Kill him.:p |
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| JM |
| quote: | Originally posted by NeoPhono
It's a sad day for American democracy.
:rolleyes: |
American democracy prevailed, and the American people chose their president. :)
>JM< |
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| Streakfury |
OK, so, I haven't been following as closly as I should, but from what I caught on the news, Kerry conceded. Is that right?? Why would he pull out like that?? Just wait until all the votes have been counted and then see who wins, surely??
It doesn't make any sense to me. :( |
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| Arbiter |
| quote: | Originally posted by Streakfury
OK, so, I haven't been following as closly as I should, but from what I caught on the news, Kerry conceded. Is that right?? Why would he pull out like that?? Just wait until all the votes have been counted and then see who wins, surely??
It doesn't make any sense to me. :( |
It's not even really close and 99% of the votes have been counted. |
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| Shakka |
| quote: | Originally posted by Streakfury
OK, so, I haven't been following as closly as I should, but from what I caught on the news, Kerry conceded. Is that right?? Why would he pull out like that?? Just wait until all the votes have been counted and then see who wins, surely??
It doesn't make any sense to me. :( |
He conceded because it was the right thing to do. There was virtually no statistical way that he could even hope that Ohio would somehow fall in his bucket-o-chips. Kerry did the right thing by saying that the decision was not up to the courts, but up to the people, and he recognized that he would have to wait for hell to freeze over before he won this election. |
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| Epicurus |
| quote: | | Democracy failed because it's a fundamentally flawed system. Ad populum is a fallacy, remember? |
You're confusing the issues here. Ad populum is a fallacy when it comes to truth claims about objective knowledge. When it comes to choice and political systems, you would have to somehow demonstrate that knowledge that is at the base of people's choices is objective (which only then would allow you to draw an analogy between democracy and an ad populum fallacy since people who based their decisions on false knowledge - i can say that since we assume objective knowledge - are in the wrong). Since a certain ethical disposition plays a role in people's choices, and I know you're not a supporter of objective ethics inscribed in the fabric of the universe, you in particular shouldn't be making such erroneous analogies.
On the flip side of things, yes, democracy is a flawed system but at the end of the day, it's still the best system we have. |
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| St_Andrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by NeoPhono
It's a sad day for American democracy.
The day after the highest number of voters in 40 years re-elected their president with both the popular vote and electoral college vote, democracy is on its last limb in the US. Its horrible to see such a large number of citizens make it their responsibility to go out and vote. Only in such a backwards and horrible nation like the US could so many make it their duty to voice their opinion at the polls. And to think that the results of the election weren't swayed in the least by the overwhelming number of nations that didn't like Bush really makes me question America's stance as an independent democracy.
It's a sad day for American democracy.
:rolleyes: |
well, most countries have a much higher turnout every election than you had this election, does that mean we choose much better leaders? |
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| Arbiter |
| quote: | Originally posted by Epicurus
You're confusing the issues here. Ad populum is a fallacy when it comes to truth claims about objective knowledge. When it comes to choice and political systems, you would have to somehow demonstrate that knowledge that is at the base of people's choices is objective (which only then would allow you to draw an analogy between democracy and an ad populum fallacy since people who based their decisions on false knowledge - i can say that since we assume objective knowledge - are in the wrong). Since a certain ethical disposition plays a role in people's choices, and I know you're not a supporter of objective ethics inscribed in the fabric of the universe, you in particular shouldn't be making such erroneous analogies.
On the flip side of things, yes, democracy is a flawed system but at the end of the day, it's still the best system we have. |
A choice or decision could be based on:
1. objective fact and sound reasoning,
2. objective fact and unsound reasoning,
3. subjective opinion at sound reasoning, or
4. subjective opinion and unsound reasoning.
#3 is a valid basis for a choice which affects only oneself, or a specific group of individuals who unanimously agree on all subjective opinions involved. But only #1 is a legitimate basis for a decision which affects those who do not consent.
Democractic political decisions cannot ever be #1 because the democratic process itself is not "sound reasoning." This is, in my view, the fundamental flaw of democracy. |
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| auujay |
| quote: | Originally posted by St_Andrew
well, most countries have a much higher turnout every election than you had this election, does that mean we choose much better leaders? |
Also, in some other contries voting it not a right, it is required by law. In America you have the right to vote if you choose to but nobody (besides Puff Daddy) is forcing you to. |
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