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Noam Chomsky - Sunday November 21 @ York University (pg. 3)
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by Endlesswave
The "lack of peer review" as you say? How do you know there isn't any? And just out of curiosity why don't you think the academic community hasn't any creditbility when it comes to politics? They are learned institutions, they if anything should have the largest say when it comes to politics in terms of looking at things a certain way no? I'd say this largely because isn't it a large percentage of university graduates who you would think end up high up in political institutions anyway? |
I don't know that there isn't any, I was just going by what starsearcher said (was never my claim in the first place).
As for the academic community at large, it's quite ironic but theory politics (i.e. academic politics) is one of the most incredibly anti-intellectual movements in history. The bias you see in university textbooks and academia in general is horrible and forces certain ideals down people's throats without even offering the opportunity to investigate the other side of the coin.
There's a movie online about this I can show you if you want, it's rather disturbing - I'm not going to post it here but just PM me if you're interested. Not that it's offensive or disgusting or anything, I just wouldn't want the site getting spammed. (And before anyone asks, no, the clip is not what made up my mind, it's just a very good example of what the community is really about - referring to students as "unconsciously racist" and all that bull). |
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| Endlesswave |
| Ok, well what I want to know is why are you not even willing to hear out what Chomsky would have to say? (at least it seems that way). I mean uni is about questioning things which is always good, but you seem to outright not want to even hear him out. As for bias in univeristy textbooks of course there is that. The point is in looking past the bias and looking at other texts that offer differing points of view to get the entire picture is it not? (Wouldn't doing that give further insight into whatever is being discussed?) Please tell me you have heard of that? That university is a place where objectivity and hopefully openmindedness about things no matter what side you're on is something that is encouraged? |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by Endlesswave
Ok, well what I want to know is why are you not even willing to hear out what Chomsky would have to say? (at least it seems that way). I mean uni is about questioning things which is always good, but you seem to outright not want to even hear him out. As for bias in univeristy textbooks of course there is that. The point is in looking past the bias and looking at other texts that offer differing points of view to get the entire picture is it not? (Wouldn't doing that give further insight into whatever is being discussed?) Please tell me you have heard of that? That university is a place where objectivity and hopefully openmindedness about things no matter what side you're on is something that is encouraged? |
I don't know what you're talking about, Chris.
#1 - Where do you get the idea that I'm not willing to hear what he has to say? I've heard it all from him, and it's always the same thing.
#2 - Open-mindedness and objectivity are almost polar opposites. Objectivity means rejecting ideas that do not make sense, and not being "open minded" about them.
#3 - Universities are maybe supposed to be about objectivity, but that sounds like a case of the sposedas to me. Your talking about the ideal case, I'm talking about the reality.
If academia was about objectivity, you'd find more ideological diversity there. Academia in the 21st century is more about intellectual image and political correctness than anything else. |
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| Durafei |
| BTW, for those who might not know - Chomsky contributed quite a bit to computer science. He "invented" Chomsky Normal Form. He's quite a smart guy, and I'm sure he knows what he is talking about - be it politics or computer science :) |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by Durafei
BTW, for those who might not know - Chomsky contributed quite a bit to computer science. He "invented" Chomsky Normal Form. He's quite a smart guy, and I'm sure he knows what he is talking about - be it politics or computer science :) |
Of course he's smart and has contributed a lot to computer science and linguistics. However, that does not make him any more qualified to analyze politics than my Electrical Engineering degree does. A lot of smart people come up with stupid ideas due to ideology. |
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| che |
| quote: | Originally posted by psychosomatica
He will also be speaking at UofT on the same day. 7pm. Con Hall. I am attending of course. |
I decided to cancel my classes on monday and tuesday just so that i can come to this :D....did not think i could make this but i'm gonna leave Sunday morning so hopefully i can make it by 7....got my tix already too... |
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| Dr. Z |
Its important to realise that Chomsky (like any other PhD) is just a person with an opinion. There will be people agreeing, and disagreeing with him. Most of his statements are theories, and he understands this. For that all of his speeches are educational hypotheses. Weather you agree with him or not depends only what your ideology is. If your ideology agrees with his, you will find his arguments extreamly good.
If your ideology doesn't agree with his, you will find his arguments helpful in justifying your ideology. For this reason, I would gladly go see Dr. Chomsky's talk. Not only to hear what he has to say, but to hear an experienced man's point of view. At least to broaden my knowledge. |
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| drewfactor |
I find it interesting how one of the fiercest critics of Israel is, in fact, a Jew. I find this fascinating. Here you have an American Jew, who fiercely criticizes America and Israel, and he's virtually a hero among the world's academic elite to the masses of University students who gravitate to his anarchistic-leftist ideology.
At the same time, two of the fiercest critics of Islam: Irshad Manji and Amir Taheri, who are also Muslim (the first being from Iran, former is a Canadian Muslm I believe), are virtually unheard of.
To further illustrate my point, some of the strongest critics of the situation of blacks in the states, who happen to be black, like Thomas Sowell, Larry Elder, and even Bill Cosby are hardly given the time of day when they criticize the so called "plight of blacks."
I think it gives you an idea of the strong bias within the academic community.
And for the record, I'll admit that Chompsky would rip me a new if I tried to debate him. Diginut, on the other hand, is just an arrogant fool:p :p :tongue3
Michael Moore on the other hand, is a total wuss and always refuses debates. Even though I disagree with both of them, in the arena of ideas Chompsky>Moore. |
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| Endlesswave |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dr. Z
Its important to realise that Chomsky (like any other PhD) is just a person with an opinion. There will be people agreeing, and disagreeing with him. Most of his statements are theories, and he understands this. For that all of his speeches are educational hypotheses. Weather you agree with him or not depends only what your ideology is. If your ideology agrees with his, you will find his arguments extreamly good.
If your ideology doesn't agree with his, you will find his arguments helpful in justifying your ideology. For this reason, I would gladly go see Dr. Chomsky's talk. Not only to hear what he has to say, but to hear an experienced man's point of view. At least to broaden my knowledge. |
^^^^^^^^ that's exactly what I'm saying.
As for bias there is always bias. It's just a matter of being exposed to as many different points of view as possible in order to make one's OWN choice on where they stand about a specific situation or topic. I don't see that as bad...bias just helps to gain perspective I think. |
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| EvilDust |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
As for the academic community at large, it's quite ironic but theory politics (i.e. academic politics) is one of the most incredibly anti-intellectual movements in history. The bias you see in university textbooks and academia in general is horrible and forces certain ideals down people's throats without even offering the opportunity to investigate the other side of the coin.
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Interesting...what sort of bias and ideals in these courses are you referring to anyways? How are they anti-intellectual?
(I'm not trying to argue here. I just want to hear more of what you think we should be teaching in universities. Thanks.) |
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| psychosomatica |
| quote: | Originally posted by starsearcher
The one thing you need to keep in mind is that it's important to see who the publisher of the works is. Usually if it's a university press type publisher, then it's good because it's been reviewed by many scholars who authorised it. Meaning, there's enough evidence and research, and bibliography to suggest that this is true facts. Regular publishers are also good, however not as credible.
Chomsky is an MIT professor, and yet none of his work was published by any university presses, and there are no peer reviews.
I just looked at some of his books that have been published and they've all been published by totally random publishers, which is usually a strong indicator of the validity of what's in the books themselves. Now I'm not saying that what he says is bad or wrong or whatever, I'm just saying once again what I've learned through some research courses at school. Specifically, an international relations history course where the prof specifically said that Chomsky is not a good and creidble research source. :)
One again...not saying he's bad or wrong...just saying there's a lack of credibility and supporting research :) |
You are indeed correct. However, If you take a look closely at his publishers, they're all textbook publishers. Many of my textbooks are not published by the university... So the argument that credibility is established by your publisher is not exactly accurate.. |
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| Durafei |
| You should also keep in mind that universities probably don't want to endorse someone like Noam Chomsky who is very controversial in his views. Remember, there are a LOT of very powerful Jewish people who give money to those universities. |
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