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The Barghuti situation (pg. 2)
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| Yoepus |
Hmm, if US elections are any indications, he'll lose:
| quote: | Last week:
Barghouti issued a statement denying he would run in the 9 January poll, and backing Mr Abbas.
Today:
"I officially presented Marwan's candidacy for the presidential elections."
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Flip-flop anyone?
;) |
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| Epicurus |
| Oh common Yoepus, you know Bush stole the elections again. Kerry was robbed :o |
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| Yoepus |
| quote: | Originally posted by Epicurus
Kerry was robbed :o |
At lease he wasn't imprisoned;) |
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| occrider |
| So can anyone please respond to my objections of Barghuti? Despite his popularity among Palestinians how will this man succeed where Arafat failed particularly since since his policies are fundamentally the same? I don't understand this situation where people are unwilling to change the status quo of the situation by giving the moderate a chance? If he fails, than the Palestinans can simply issue a vote of no confidence. I guess I can kind of understand because Arafat has been failing for several decades and never got a vote of no confidence :rolleyes:. Oh well, at least this helps me understand why people voted for Bush for a second term ... |
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| smokeape |
I hope he wins too. At least they'll know where he's at and what he's up to. Arafat should have been his cellmate a long time ago.
:D
[[[smoke]]] |
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| Palestinian |
Marwan Barghouti:
1. Would crack down on corruption and bring accountability.
2. Has popularity with everyone from bottom-up, from the refugee camps to the politicians. Therefore, can rally everyone.
3. Is clear on his stance towards Palestinians' rights, unlike Abbas who is not clear and is feared will make too many concessions.
4. Being a prisoner will bring him a Nelson Mandela image internationally.
5. Basically, he will strengthen the Palestinians and unite them, building a unified strategy of resistance. |
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| occrider |
Thank you for responding to my question.
| quote: | Originally posted by Palestinian
Marwan Barghouti:
1. Would crack down on corruption and bring accountability.
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Granted this is a very good thing for the Palestinian people with respect to getting the leadership they deserve ... no arguments from me.
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2. Has popularity with everyone from bottom-up, from the refugee camps to the politicians. Therefore, can rally everyone.
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Did Arafat not have the popularity and the support from everyone? Even if Barghouti had some measure of greater support, how would this impact the Palestinain/Israeli talks in any meaningful way?
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3. Is clear on his stance towards Palestinians' rights, unlike Abbas who is not clear and is feared will make too many concessions.
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What Palestinain rights is Abbas unclear about?
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4. Being a prisoner will bring him a Nelson Mandela image internationally.
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The issue is far more complex and different in nature than the South African struggle ... if one of the ANC's goals were to wipe out Afrikaner existence by targeting civilians I'm certain many would regard Mandela in a different manner altogether.
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5. Basically, he will strengthen the Palestinians and unite them, building a unified strategy of resistance. |
A unified strategy of resistance? Sounds like more resolve for violence against the Israeli civilians. Again, how is Bargouhti's ability to unify Palestinaians any different than Arafat and how would this impact Palestinian/Israeli relations? |
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| Palestinian |
I just wrote a long ass response on your concern occrider, but it got deleted before i posted it. This is the second time it happens when I answer you. . Basically there is no big difference between Barghouti and Arafat, the people liked Arafat and everyone needs to understand that the people decide and no one else. Barghouti is just younger, energetic and spent time in the refugee camps and with those who accuse the PA of corruption and has their trust, that's why he may do a better job of uniting people and factions than Arafat. We're not so concerned about the peace talks as much as unifying the Palestinians in the face of continued military occupation. We're very divided at the moment. I can't be bothered to type more. I will post an article on the issue instead.
Mike Whitney: Marwan al Barghouti, a Palestinian Mandela
By Mike Whitney
PalestineChronicle.com
The lame duck Secretary of State, Colin Powell, has been trundled off to Israel, but it has nothing to do with resurrecting the moribund Road Map.
And, it certainly doesn’t involve paying his respects to the former elected leader of the Palestinian people, Yasir Arafat. The Bush Administration demonstrated their contempt for Arafat by sending off a rag-tag entourage of low-level emissaries to the Palestinian President’s funereal. It was a final desperate gesture intended to humiliate the Palestinian people.
Now, Powell has appeared on the scene pretending he has taken Palestinian interests to heart; its quiet a transformation, although not entirely convincing. The real motive for Powell’s trip is to assist Israel in the selection of the next Palestinian leader. It is a preemptive strike against the campaign of Marwan al Barghouti; the nightmare candidate who threatens to perpetuate Palestinian struggle against 37 years of Israeli occupation.
Powell’s rhetoric has been predictably bland; invoking the overworked bromides of “resuming negotiations” and taking advantage of this “historic opportunity”. Behind the scenes, however, the action has been fast-paced and entirely focused on one ultimate goal, making sure that al Barghouti does not appear on the presidential ticket. Both Israel and the US are completely committed to “hand-picking” the next leader of the Palestinian people and they won’t be discouraged by outpourings of popular support for the incarcerated Barghouti.
Does this explain why Fatah's revolutionary council has acted so quickly to approve PLO’s Mahmoud Abbas as the Fatah’s candidate for the January elections?
Perhaps. Abbas puts a more “moderate” face on Palestinian interests, and he is clearly the choice of the Israeli leadership. His grandfatherly appearance and outspoken opposition to violence has inspired confidence among the Sharon government. Apart from that, Sharon knows he can probably manipulate the soft-spoken Abbas and impress on him the need to police his own people while settlement continues.
Al Barghouti on the other hand, is the people’s champion; a charismatic firebrand emblematic of Palestinian dignity and resistance. His internment in an Israeli prison threatens buoy his popularity in the same way it did for Nelson Mandela or Bobby Sands. In truth, al Barghouti doesn’t need the endorsement of Fatah, his personal plight embodies the Palestinian struggle in a way that far exceeds Abbas. By any measure, he’s the hands-on favorite.
In other words, Bush and Sharon have a “big-time” problem. There’s no way that the Israeli leadership will let elections go forward if al Barghouti has any chance of winning. Like his friends in Washington, Sharon is looking for a facsimile of Ayad Allawi, a predictably venal stooge who will keep his people in line with heavy doses of violence. Abbas may not be that man, but he’s quite a bit closer than Barghouti. Barghouti’s defiance creates the worst possible scenario for Israel, a Palestinian president who refuses to collude with the occupation and their goal of expanding settlements.
Washington’s efforts to subvert the electoral process are already becoming apparent. Representatives from Fatah have been dispatched to Barghouti’s prison to pressure him to withdraw from the race. Palestinian cabinet minister Qaddura Faris met with Barghouti to dissuade him from the potentially “divisive” campaign against Abbas.
Al Jazeera reports, “The door before Barghouti is closed now, after the decision of the Fatah Central Committee to to nominate Abbas. If he runs as an independent candidate, Fatah will lose votes to other factions and this may also create divisions inside the movement.” (Hatim Abd al Qadir, Fatah official)
Hogwash. Washington is pulling out all the stops to torpedo Barghouti’s campaign and the corrupt Fatah leadership is helping out. Just like Allawi or Karzai they stand to benefit dramatically if their man Abbas is elected.
Al Barghouti is the clear choice of those who still support the aspirations of Palestinian statehood and a negotiated settlement. Let Bush and Sharon plot their subterfuge; Palestinians won’t elect a puppet. |
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| Yoepus |
Ahh why not, I'll jump into the fray too...
| quote: | Originally posted by Palestinian
Marwan Barghouti:
1. Would crack down on corruption and bring accountability. |
Who says Abbas won't crack down on corruption and bring accountability?
And what reason is there to beleive that Barghouti will succeed in this over Abbas or that his word on this matter can even be trusted?
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2. Has popularity with everyone from bottom-up, from the refugee camps to the politicians. Therefore, can rally everyone. |
Up to the ends of Palestinian society. He has no popularity in the West outside of Palestine.
Also a rally of your society might not be the best course of political action at this time. The Palestinians have rallied for 30 years and it has doen them little good. Segmentation might allow the ability to bring new ideas and new methods to bear, whereby they win on merit, not on populairty, and then the uniting around the cause that wins begins.
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3. Is clear on his stance towards Palestinians' rights, unlike Abbas who is not clear and is feared will make too many concessions. |
I defer to my colleague Occrider's comment.
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4. Being a prisoner will bring him a Nelson Mandela image internationally. |
Your assuming Israeli cares about world opinion?:conf:
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5. Basically, he will strengthen the Palestinians and unite them, building a unified strategy of resistance. |
Right, a unified strategy that has "worked" for 30 years and done little for the Palestinian people but bring them more misery. Perhaps it is time to try a different strategy and unite around being Palestinian, not using violence. |
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| Palestinian |
You're simply saying that the right strategy would be to surrender to whatever Israel offers. I didn't mention violence, but it's typical of you to think that's what I meant. Palestinian society is deeply fragmented at the moment, it needs to be unified and strengthened. The difference between Abbas and Barghouti is that Barghouti is popular amongst the poor, the refugees, and all factions under Fatah and not under Fatah, including the rich. Abbas is only popular amongst the rich and not so poor, and his politics are vague. He doesn't have everyone's complete trust. People are nervous of his politics. About corruption. I used to pass by Abbas' home when I went to the beach in Gaza. It's a beautiful place. Abbas is related to corruption. Barghouti is not known for any relation to it. And I do believe Israel cares about its reputation internationally. It should care, there are reports out there that say how Israel has lost the moral ground and how it is becoming a pariah state.
On another note, Hamas just announced it would cease attacks against Israelis if Israel stops attacking Palestinians. This isn't the first time Hamas makes such an annoucement. And Palestinians are still being killed. |
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| dj_ilan_yosef |
| quote: | Originally posted by Palestinian
On another note, Hamas just announced it would cease attacks against Israelis if Israel stops attacking Palestinians. This isn't the first time Hamas makes such an annoucement. And Palestinians are still being killed. |
yes... israel should continue to jump at any ceasefire call hamas makes. history teaches most of us a lesson. in this case, a pattern.
I remember a story someone once told me about the boy who cried wolf... or was it the Hamasnik who cried peace :rolleyes: |
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