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That damn audio out clipping in Reason!
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| Elfs1der |
Hey. I'm pretty new to the forums but I have been using TA for a long time now. But anyways straight to the point. I have a few questions that I could use some help on..
(I have read all of the tutorials posted on that sticky thread on the forums by the way, so I have done some research...)
Question #1:
I have been using Reason ever since it has been released and I have always had problems at my mixing stage of creating music. I followed the reason tutorial CD clearly. I set my volume to maximum on the mixer and then will set the gain so it's just on the brink of clipping. After I will then back the gain off a few notches just to leave some room. However when I do this and unmute everything having all of the instruments playing at once and set the levels, I find that my mix is totally messed up and sounds worse than when I didn't set my gains before. Unfortunatly I usually find it impossible to get my mix to sound balanced and to not clip at the same time.
What do I do to solve this? I know I could just turn the master down until it stops clipping but is that wise to do?
Question #2:
Should I EQ, compress, and add effects after I set my gains or before I set the gains?
Question #3:
When mastering do you normally compress mid, mid-high, and highs on a multiband compressor? I usually only use the multiband compressor to compress the bass and thats it. Usually the bass drum and basslines are the ones that have the most peaks in my mixes.
Do you think this is a mixing problem and not a mastering problem?
Funny thing is, is that this problem only happens whenever I use Reason. Whenever make a complete mix in Cubase SX 2 I find my mixes sound a lot better. I have tried ReWire but same result...
Theres got to be a solution! Hehe. |
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| Euphorica |
| possibly because of a slow computer??? |
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| Elfs1der |
Well I do notice that the audio out clipping has almost like a delay on it. Because when I patch reason through ReWire the clip meter isn't as sensitive. What I mean by this is e.g. Say a peak hits for like 1ms, Reason will have that clip light on for like 2secs.
But I don't think its because my computer is too slow I have amd xp 1600+, 768mb ram, 80gb 7200rpm HDD, Creative Audigy 2 ZS platnum pro (top of the line from creative.)
Any other suggestions? |
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| hardikaveri |
clipping?
like sound is too loud and it gains distortion or clipping like annoying noise like.. "RAKS POKS.. KRRR TOKS"
becouse
if it's first just low every channel from mixerswitch are peaking high and check master mixer..
you could make your mixdown reaally quiet becouse you can raise masterlevel when mastering..
if your clipping is weird noise like i present it above it all bout your cpu and soundcard/drivers |
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| Elfs1der |
No thats the thing, it doesn't sound like clipping, just the light at the bottom is almost always on....
I hate how Reason doesn't have "db" levels, its just stupid colours
EDIT: Anyways, is it still good to lower the overall volume on the master level? I thought it was best to make the mix closest to clipping without clipping as possible. |
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| TonyZ |
In my experience it seems like Reason likes to clip when you've got a lot of Maelstroms/Subtractors playing at the same time.
I usually disect my tracks about 16 bars at a time, sometimes less if there's a definite clip in there. Keep looping it, and use a good pair of headphones - you'll soon be able to hear where two "negative" sounds are being multiplied to clip. Sometimes I've had to remove an effect or two so that the frequencies merge nicely.
I've been told that the compressor in Reason 2.5 is pretty shoddy; although I like using it for drums it's pretty bad at everything else. I find that using 2 paraEQs usually derives a better sound (small cuts are key). Also, you might have to just face it that Reason can't pump out huge riffs - it's got some sound quality issues. (Which is why I assume hardware is sought after). Although, Reason 3 has some promising "M"-systems, mastering compressors and eqs and reverbs. Sounds nice.
I usually run 3 mixers - one for drums/hats, one for bass/pads/fx/one-shots and the last one for leads. This way, you can adjust and eq each and use different effects on each mixer (i.e. a master compressor on the drums ReMIX and reverb on the pads ReMIX)
Then, turn the individual channel volumes on the mixers to 90. Sometimes 80 is even fine. Then, use only the mixers to change volumes of the instruments. Leave all instruments at 100.
I find Reason likes this the best - the signals from the instruments come in at full-power, and then the channels on the mixer(s) can be adjusted to maximize volumes.
Some other things: Make sure your MIDI isn't pumping the keys in at full velocity; I've found that recording usually gives me a louder velocity and thus a louder sound. Also, use the REDRum "Apply Pattern to Track" technique. Right click the empty space around the pattern buttons and you'll see it there. That way, you can create the pattern in ReDrum and then copy the individual hits to the sequencer between the L-and R-flags. MUCH easier to make modifications/add one-shots/time cymbals this way, and helps to visualize different patterns (with different highlighting colors). And if you click the "Enable pattern section" button off, you won't get a stacking of Redrum sounds (which always clips and is really annoying; I used to forget do it alllllll the time, but no more.)
Also don't forget that Reason is all calculated waves. You want your mix to sound regularly loud enough in your headphones when your h'phones are CRANKED. When you export the song, it will be quiet at a normal volume. Just load it up in any mastering software and use a normalizer. I've found that fidelity suffers in my work when I start fiddling with EQs, compressors and wave hammers/maximizers. So I just make sure I'm not clipping in Reason and normalize to a 16-14dB range. It gives a pretty valid sound - a homemade hiss is normal and lends to the amateur, underground sound sometimes.
And Reasons samples are quite good, but it's always best to find your own - especially crashes/hats/high freq items. Get a friend with a good mic and some drums to record them for you. And buy him/her some beer for the effort.
Hope that helped.
I'll check back in a few days to see what else you guys have to say. |
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| hardikaveri |
| quote: | Originally posted by Elfs1der
No thats the thing, it doesn't sound like clipping, just the light at the bottom is almost always on....
I hate how Reason doesn't have "db" levels, its just stupid colours
EDIT: Anyways, is it still good to lower the overall volume on the master level? I thought it was best to make the mix closest to clipping without clipping as possible. |
Hey man.. keep that light in NON read positio, becouse it could mean that theres one or more lines which are actually clipping...so
keep lines volume levels so low that theres no clipping light.. you can rise levels with REAL mastering program |
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| sooper |
| quote: | Originally posted by hardikaveri
you could make your mixdown reaally quiet becouse you can raise masterlevel when mastering..
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| quote: | Originally posted by TonyZ
turn the individual channel volumes on the mixers to 90. Sometimes 80 is even fine. Then, use only the mixers to change volumes of the instruments. Leave all instruments at 100. |
I had the same problem you've described in the first post of this thread. But using the two suggestions quoted above, the problem's solved for me.. worked very nicely.
good luck!:) |
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| Elfs1der |
Thanks for the info TonyZ. I'll try some of the stuff out. The only reason why I put the volume full on the mixer was just because I learned this off of the Reason tutorial CD. It leaves room for the mixer volume so you can turn it up all the way without that specific channel clipping. Only problem was that is, with all of the instruments going it starts clipping. I know thats because frequences pile on top of eachother but I should have asked will the mix get ruined if I turn the master level down to stop clipping? And when I push the compressors hader will that make the mix sound worse?
But thx for the reply all that stuff is good to keep in mind. |
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| TonyZ |
You're not going to trainwreck the track if you take the master volume down. What you should aim for is even sound - every instrument is at the same volume. Then make minor adjustments.
If your song is BLASTING and you have to minimize the main volume to extreme lengths (I'd say taking it down 35+) then yeah, you'll bomb out the track and there'll be no saving it. What I mean is if one instrument is HUGE and the others aren't then when you lower the volume it's not going to make a difference - you'll still have huge peaks but the rest of the song will be quieter. However, you can go pretty low so don't be afraid of that.
Overcompressing will give you a characteristic "woommmphh" noise on bass/kicks and a powdery sound to the entire song, so try to avoid that as well. I've been fooling around with Soundforge's Wave Hammer and I haven't made any progress, but when I do I'll let you know what's up.
The compressors in Reason work best on low end sounds, you're right about that. I wouldn't use them on saws and the like because there's no audible difference to me. I don't usually fool around with the Vocoder/compressors, just Para Eq.
Keep going, eventually we'll bag this thing. |
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| Elfs1der |
| Well I just mastered my first mix with Izotope Ozone and it sounds decent. Do different instruments in reason (e.g. Malstrom or Subtractor) have different volume levels to begin with. say if I turn up both of them to max, the Malstrom still sounds way louder. |
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