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This is a good read (pg. 2)
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| DigiNut |
Any real capitalist's beliefs aren't founded on a me-me-me philosophy though. It's not about giving the finger to the poor or the homeless or the injured - it's about the proven knowledge that there is less of this misfortune in a society that's free, because people aren't innately stupid unless they're encouraged to be.
It's not just democracy that's fundamental to modern society - it's also a constitution. And Canada's constitution has become so weak it's like it doesn't even exist anymore. The constitution should be the supreme law, it's supposed to override government legislation and certainly override special interest groups. Does anyone even look at the Canadian "constitution" (i.e. our junky Charter of Rights) anymore other than people who get speeding tickets and have to wait more than 8 months for a trial?
The funny thing is that Canadians are actually obsessed with their "rights", they just seem to have a very weird definition of what a "right" really is. To them it's an entitlement to some material thing, not a freedom to act. If socialism could be driven by altruism then it would be great, but in actuality we have socialism driven by greed - and if anything is going to be driven by greed it should be a free market. :p |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by MarkT
fair enough...here ya go! like I said, I bet the replies will be next to nothing. Granted, it's not a "relevant" issue for many people here (at least it won't be perceived as relevant):
http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...2869&forumid=12
btw...I'd be super elite too...I think we'd share a LOT more in common with our political opinions, IF (big if) I was confident that our society could handle it (which I'm not). |
Society can handle it. After all how many topless women do you see running around town? |
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| MarkT |
I think most women don't care one way or the other...it was more about women's breasts not being labelled as "obscene" than it was about the actual act of being allowed to run around topless.
I'm thinking more along the lines of...oh...say reducing liquor consumption rules...removing or rolling back "last call"...or being able to serve openly for cultural events (like in Montreal).
I don't think our society would handle it well at all :( |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by MarkT
I think most women don't care one way or the other...it was more about women's breasts not being labelled as "obscene" than it was about the actual act of being allowed to run around topless.
I'm thinking more along the lines of...oh...say reducing liquor consumption rules...removing or rolling back "last call"...or being able to serve openly for cultural events (like in Montreal).
I don't think our society would handle it well at all :( |
In the short term, no.
But are you thinking about the long term? |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by MarkT
I think most women don't care one way or the other...it was more about women's breasts not being labelled as "obscene" than it was about the actual act of being allowed to run around topless.
I'm thinking more along the lines of...oh...say reducing liquor consumption rules...removing or rolling back "last call"...or being able to serve openly for cultural events (like in Montreal).
I don't think our society would handle it well at all :( |
My point is that just because you are allowed to do it doenst mean you necissarily will or if you do that you will abuse it.
I think society can handle a relaxation of laws. Why? because in the past we handled ourselves quite fine without so much interference. Sure for the first few months youd have people going a little overboard. It's no different than when you let a catholic girl out of the monastary and she turns into a whore...eventually they grow up though. |
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| Spam |
First, they said we must wear bike helmets, but I said nothing, for I only drive
Then, they said we can not eat junk food, but I said nothing, because I like to eat healthy
After, they banned Pit Bulls, but I said nothing, because I do not own a dog.
Then, they took away my Red Bull... and by then, no one gave a about me, because they all like their Tim Hortons, and I did not stand up for them in their time of need. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Spam
First, they said we must wear bike helmets, but I said nothing, for I only drive
Then, they said we can not eat junk food, but I said nothing, because I like to eat healthy
After, they banned Pit Bulls, but I said nothing, because I do not own a dog.
Then, they took away my Red Bull... and by then, no one gave a about me, because they all like their Tim Hortons, and I did not stand up for them in their time of need. |
Exactly. this is why i stand up for smokers, pit bull owners, and bicyclists even though im none of the above because i know that one day this line of thinking is going to come back and bite me in the ass too. I wish other's realized this.
The best qoute from that article is this one:
| quote: | | The provincial Liberals are not completely hopeless; they've also passed that new law allowing people to bring their own wine to restaurants. (Which only goes to show that MPPs, like most people, are strictly libertarian about freedoms they enjoy.) |
I think that statement applies to most of TOTA as well. |
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| MarkT |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
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I think society can handle a relaxation of laws. Why? because in the past we handled ourselves quite fine without so much interference... |
That's exactly it though...I DON'T think that looking at the past is a good indicator.
I think the mentality of individuals has *drastically* changed in even the last ~20 years. Where somethings would have been ok then, they won't be now...because of the increased "me me me" mentality that exists. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by MarkT
That's exactly it though...I DON'T think that looking at the past is a good indicator.
I think the mentality of individuals has *drastically* changed in even the last ~20 years. Where somethings would have been ok then, they won't be now...because of the increased "me me me" mentality that exists. |
I think you are right. And its the me me me attiude that has caused all these restrictions to be put in place.
Why are people not able to handle things now? because they havnt been taught to or even given the chance to try. |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by MarkT
That's exactly it though...I DON'T think that looking at the past is a good indicator.
I think the mentality of individuals has *drastically* changed in even the last ~20 years. Where somethings would have been ok then, they won't be now...because of the increased "me me me" mentality that exists. |
Maybe you're right, but mentalities have changed because we as a society continue to support those mentalities. We make more and more laws in the name of "safety". We give more and more handouts to anybody who thinks they are disadvantaged in some cockamamie way. We restrict the freedom of speech more and more with "political correctness", and "speech codes" in every high school and university. We cry and scream at the idea of privatizing anything at all (health, transportation, electricity).
Yes, people's attitudes HAVE changed drastically, but that doesn't mean we can't throw it in reverse or make a U-turn. We could have a free society again, if we really wanted to, and if we were committed to making it happen. It would have to be gradual, but it could happen. We just don't seem to have anybody in office that wants to take a stand.
That's the problem as I see it with the conservative party. Harper was by far the strongest candidate but he was still nowhere near strong enough. The party needs a leader who can actually stand up for himself without pandering to anyone or being afraid of offending anyone's delicate sensibilities. Bush's sweeping win over Kerry in the USA should be proof enough that being strong and principled is more important than trying to make everyone happy. Lots of Americans didn't like Bush or what he believed in, but they felt they needed someone who believed in something. We need a ing candidate who believes in FREEDOM and isn't willing to compromise. |
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| MarkT |
I agree that our society isn't doing much to combat those mentalities...societal tabboos aren't all "bad"...a society HAS to have "norms" and expectations in order to function. When it doesn't, or when those norms and expectations cease to infer any sort of sense of obligation, responsibity, etc. on it's members, then laws have to take their place. Which is what we have now. People are so negligent with their dogs, we have these ridiculous "ban pit bull" movements going on, for example.
Bush's win is due to the neverending work of the right wing faithful...see, you didn't fully read that article I posted earlier today :D
The Conservative Alliance's current leadership is NOT about increasing freedoms for EVEYRONE. They can sugar coat it whatever way they want, but they're still operating with an exclusionary Christian mentality...and so long as that remains the case, I will *never* vote for them, no matter what else they propose.
I'm really at a loss on how we could change the "me me me" attitudes that currently exist. I'd be wary of doing so by slowly re-introducing changes that bring us back to "the way things were", because I'm confident that such freedoms would be *immediately* abused by a great # of selfish people out there who don't give a about the society and community in which they live :( |
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| Fir3start3r |
The only problem with the "Me me me" arguement is that it isn't new.
I remember talking about this back in high school in the 80s...
I think what's really changed is that there is a prevalent stench of absolute whore-ism that society deems acceptable because that's what they believe must be done to get ahead.
A society where anything goes to get what you want and step on the heads of others to do it.
Problem is, this thinking is backward.
People will be rewarded in direct proportion to their contribution towards society; the more they contribute, the more they'll be rewarded.
Sort of a built-in "success karma" if you will.
To bad the media and our own school system doesn't teach it... |
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