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Need some definitions here
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| RickyM |
Progressive - what the hell is it actually?
I think (probably wrong) that progressive is nothing like anthem Trance ie.Buildup breakdown - progressive is more like e.g. Sasha- Xpander, or Probspot - Foreplay. I dont know
Also what is McProg or American progressive? Is this like Perry O Neill?
And one more thing - is progressive actually Trance music? Or is it a genre of its own.
HOpe this doesn't turn into a flaming match - I just thought it was about time that I found out what these words meamt :o
P.S - I'd appreciate if no wankers flame me for asking this question :) |
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| Ory |
Elitists are gonna be all over this, including me.
...hm, maybe later. :stongue: |
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| Steve Stephano |
| quote: | Originally posted by RickyM
And one more thing - is progressive actually Trance music? Or is it a genre of its own.
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I'll answer this. Progressive is a subgenre of trance and of house.
Trance is a genre but the sungenres vary, ie. Hard Trance, Vocal Trance, Prog Trance , Tech Trance, Psy Trance, etc. Same with house, it is made up of various subgenres like Deep House, Prog House, Tech House, Acid House, etc.
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P.S - I'd appreciate if no wankers flame me for asking this question :) |
Now you get us both flamed. :p |
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| Cobalt |
What "progressive" was originally used to describe were tracks built of loops that layer and change over time, or progress. Most progressive lacks any prominent lead, though there may be several major loops that progress and layer over eachother. Some of the most lush progressive trance, produced around 99-01, contained discernable leads (Stage One, Xpander, etc.), but this is generally considered an exception. Progressive trance, progressive house, and progressive breaks all use "progressive" to describe the use of layering, progression, and gradual change in loops.
By late 2001, the progressive subgenres all melted together and people gave up trying to distinguish them. Hence the actual genre in each label was dropped and "Progressive" was born. It has since become its own genre, no matter how silly it is to have an adjective for a name. No on bothers calling it anything other than progressive, because ascribing "trance" or "breaks" to the end is meaningless when attempting to describe the entire genre. Progressive House comes closest, but has mostly fallen out of use because it's not inclusive enough. Modern "Progressive" is a mash of layered breaks, sparse trance elements, and house.
American Progressive is called "McProg" because it mimics the sound of actual progressive but doesn't progress. It typically has a subtle, twinkly lead melody (that doesn't progress, like in Progressive, and that is clearly the primary lead, unlike Progressive) and a deep, booming, chugging bassline borrowed from progressive house. Calling it progressive is really a misnomer, but that's where it emerged from. |
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| RickyM |
Thanks guys :D
So progressive differs from Trance in that progressive doesn't have a lead synth/melody unlike say, Out of The Blue or Lange -Follow Me.
But McProg or American progressive sometimes does have this like Perry O'Neill - Waveforce. ?? Confusing for me - but thanks Cobalt!
Steve Stephano - don't let the flaming bastards grind you down :D |
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| Cobalt |
| quote: | Originally posted by RickyM
So progressive differs from Trance in that progressive doesn't have a lead synth/melody unlike say, Out of The Blue or Lange -Follow Me. |
Right. And plain old original "Trance" didn't progress. The main pads and loops just chugged along like techno, with extra effects thrown on top. Progressive trance emerged when trance producers began progressing their pads and loops. Anthem/Epic/most-of-post-1997 trance developed when producers replaced interweaving progression with a primary lead and loops that support that lead, not compete with it. In this way, many progressive snobs consider anthem and epic trance an uncreative backtracking from progressive trance, but that's up to debate. (Britain collectively fought out this battle in the music magazines of 2000. Long story short, Sasha and Digweed won, Oakenfold lost. Holland went the other way.)
| quote: | | But McProg or American progressive sometimes does have this like Perry O'Neill - Waveforce. ?? Confusing for me - but thanks Cobalt! |
Right. But the samples are very similar to progressive, despite there being no actual progression of the element, and a clear lead melody. |
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| memusa |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cobalt
Britain collectively fought out this battle in the music magazines of 2000. Long story short, Sasha and Digweed won, Oakenfold lost. Holland went the other way.
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Hmmm...interesting...can anyone expand on this? I would love to know what exactly happened here... |
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| Cobalt |
| quote: | Originally posted by memusa
Hmmm...interesting...can anyone expand on this? I would love to know what exactly happened here... |
The entire UK music press was in love with epic and anthem trance through its 1999 apex. Progressive trance competed for attention, and the original progressive trance British DJs (Sasha, Dave Seaman, Nick Warren, etc) became more and more critical about the state of trance as anthem and epic gained in popularity. (They would later go on to form Progressive, to further distance themselves from the anthem/epic trance association).
By 2000 the British club culture as a whole was at a head between anthem trance and progressive trance. The press decided that anthem trance was trite and derivative, hailing progressive as the future. Oakenfold fell like the archangel Lucifer, Sasha & Digweed were declared gods, etc. But the situation has grown past that for years now, particularly since Progressive isn't really even trance anymore, and doesn't need to distance itself from the label. |
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| Ian^ |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cobalt
The entire UK music press was in love with epic and anthem trance through its 1999 apex. Progressive trance competed for attention, and the original progressive trance British DJs (Sasha, Dave Seaman, Nick Warren, etc) became more and more critical about the state of trance as anthem and epic gained in popularity. (They would later go on to form Progressive, to further distance themselves from the anthem/epic trance association).
By 2000 the British club culture as a whole was at a head between anthem trance and progressive trance. The press decided that anthem trance was trite and derivative, hailing progressive as the future. Oakenfold fell like the archangel Lucifer, Sasha & Digweed were declared gods, etc. But the situation has grown past that for years now, particularly since Progressive isn't really even trance anymore, and doesn't need to distance itself from the label. |
yes, but at the same time Digweed wasn't complaining that Bedrock - Heaven Scent was bringing in royalties from every compilation going & loved by all ;) |
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| Subey |
My 2 cents :)
I see all versions of Trance as listening experiences. The structures of the various genres implies the type of journey. The easiest way to understand it is to think of rides of at an amusement park.
There are two Poles in Trance that define the music.
The North Pole where the structure of the track is designed to maximize aural pleasure at a specific point (climax). In essence it exactly like a roller coaster in structure. This is labelled Epic Trance by most. Ex: Solid Globe - North Pole
The South Pole operates on a different principle. The structure is "flattened" so that it doesn't give a boost to any part of the song. Now the value of the song is focused on the environment it creates. Imagine "it's a small world" ride at Disneyland. This is labelled Progressive EX: Petter - These Days
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The Trance Spectrum
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NP INBETWEEN SP
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The problem with Progressive is that it isn't accessible. If you wanted to introduce a friend to Trance it would be a bad idea to give them a progressive song out of the gates. People who can't access it make the following mistake, they equate "inaccessible" with boring, which is unfair.
The public at large makes the following associations... "vocals - music for my generation" & "instrumental - music for past generations". So when they first arrive into the trance world they immediately gravitate towards songs with strong vocal elements. People label these songs "CHEESE", which is unfair, they are merely confusing the word "CHEESE" with "ACCESIBLE"
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Now American Progressive or "MCProg" is neither NPole or SPole music. Its inbetween. What this style of trance has done is incorporated elements of both poles. As a result it is more "ACCESIBLE" than straight Progressive. I call it "ACCESIBLE PROG". EX. Endre - I Kill For You (ProbSpot mix)
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The bottom line is that the more places YOUR EARS like along the spectrum then the more music you get to enjoy. But you can't really argue with your ears to like more now can ya... well at least its never worked for me... |
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| Cobalt |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ian^
yes, but at the same time Digweed wasn't complaining that Bedrock - Heaven Scent was bringing in royalties from every compilation going & loved by all ;) |
Haha, true. Everyone leaves out the brief phase in 98 or so when Digweed, among some other progressive DJs, was actually hammering some anthem trance. I guess he changed his mind. :p |
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| Earthsnail |
| quote: | Originally posted by RickyM
Also what is McProg or American progressive? |
There was a good definition of Mc Prog in a thread a couple months back. You should check it out. It was something like: Something created by Tiesto, then automatically goes to the top ten, then remixed by Markus Schulz and put on the top ten to get played out again..something like that. |
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