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York rally - Beating footage (2 vids) (pg. 2)
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| The Highroller |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
I don't know why they ended up in the hospital, because I studied those two videos as carefully as I could and didn't really see much "beating". The guy they were all focusing on seemed to only get hit a couple of times, and neither of the angles really give a clear view of how it all started. Sure, the protesters who attended the rally might *say* that the cops jumped him, but he might have also jumped the cops. As for being in the hospital, most protester types would go to the hospital for a cold.
I'm not saying that the police didn't overstep their bounds - I honestly don't know. I don't think you can really tell from the information available. Unless you've got additional sources for us? |
They didn't give them enough time to disperse. They used violence when it wasn't necessary. That is overstepping their bounds.
There are no "additional sources" since it's either being reported poorly or not at all in any newspaper or broadcast I've seen so far.
"Beating" is the wrong word, yes. But they definately used unnecessary force. |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by The Highroller
They didn't give them enough time to disperse. They used violence when it wasn't necessary. That is overstepping their bounds. |
How do you know that though?
I understand how you're looking at - in the video, the cops are just standing there minding their own business and then suddenly go nuts. It *sorta* looks like they just started attacking people.
However, have you considered the other possibility? Considering that the cops were there since the beginning of the clip... maybe they had told people to disperse a half hour ago, radio'ed whoever was in charge to say that they weren't listening, and were essentially waiting for the command to "move in".
That may not be how it happened, but the point is, we don't know, and I think it's pointless to jump to conclusions, no matter what those conclusions are. Maybe the cops waited, maybe they didn't. Maybe the protesters crowded and attacked the cops, maybe they didn't. Maybe they used excessive force, maybe they didn't. So far, we've only seen one side of the story and even that one side is pretty sketchy to me. |
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| Jayx1 |
you can hear them clearly say "you have to clear the area" and "give me the megaphone"
When they refused they arrested him and it looked like he was resisting arrest. |
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| The Highroller |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
How do you know that though?
I understand how you're looking at - in the video, the cops are just standing there minding their own business and then suddenly go nuts. It *sorta* looks like they just started attacking people.
However, have you considered the other possibility? Considering that the cops were there since the beginning of the clip... maybe they had told people to disperse a half hour ago, radio'ed whoever was in charge to say that they weren't listening, and were essentially waiting for the command to "move in".
That may not be how it happened, but the point is, we don't know, and I think it's pointless to jump to conclusions, no matter what those conclusions are. Maybe the cops waited, maybe they didn't. Maybe the protesters crowded and attacked the cops, maybe they didn't. Maybe they used excessive force, maybe they didn't. So far, we've only seen one side of the story and even that one side is pretty sketchy to me. |
Again, what other sources are there? I heard details of this story from the University of Toronto Political Science Union, but obviously those details need to be taken with a grain of salt. From what I've seen and heard, they were not given enough time to disperse.
For those that that say what the cops did was justified on the other hand, you have no sources at all. Do you guys have any sources to back up the claim that they did give the protesters enough time?
So far, there are two sources that show me that they didn't. |
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| The Highroller |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
you can hear them clearly say "you have to clear the area" and "give me the megaphone"
When they refused they arrested him and it looked like he was resisting arrest. |
Yea, he said "you have to clear the area" and then seconds later the cops attack. It's a protest. As soon as the cop says "you have to clear the area", everybody is not going to drop their signs and megaphones and immediately walk away. You have to give them time. |
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| ShadoWolf |
I'm all for holding peaceful protests - even if they are commie scum.
But they were creating a MAJOR disturbance in Vari Hall. They were using a EXTREMELY loud magaphone - and trust me, sound carries in Vari Hall!! They should have been outside where the sound would have been more reasonable.
Did you even stop to consider the fact that the protesters were harrassing and disturbing innocent bystanders? |
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| Little John |
| The red flag in the crowd was enough to make my decision. Dirty REDS |
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| DigiNut |
No, I admit it, there is absolutely no hard evidence that the cops acted in good faith. But I also see no *hard* evidence that they used excessive force.
I don't know why I'm repeating this, but again, I'm not on the cops side, I just don't think there's adequate evidence on *either* side to blame anyone specifically. I don't think what the cops did was necessarily justified - I don't even really know what they did!
However, if you still think that the evidence points to police brutality, then my question to you is, why were the cops there since the beginning of the clip? I mean, they were just standing around - they must have been standing around for a reason - hence my suggestion that maybe they told people to leave beforehand.
I'd like to see the WHOLE clip, personally. It's blatantly obvious that these two were cut from longer videos. I'll bet there's a lot more useful information to be had in the minutes BEFORE the incident than there is during the incident itself. |
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| abort416 |
im a york student and there is a couple of things that none of you have mentioned which are very relevant
#1 - 650 students were disrupted by this and a midterm had to be cancelled due to the LOUD protest using MEGAPHONES after a member of the offending group (GRAIN) was already expelled from york last year for using a megaphone in the exact same place; vari hall they know theyre not allowed to use them and that it disrupts classes
#2 - they tried to grab the cops GLOCK PISTOL loaded with 14 ROUNDS of LIVE AMMUNITION now why would peace protesters need a gun?
#3 - the protesters used their megaphone as a weapon hitting two cops on the head with it and it was with enough force that the megaphone was in pieces afterwards i know because i saw it with my own two eyes
#4 - a protester poured hot coffee on a cop
#5 - york is private property and even on public property you need a permit to protest or hold such a large assembely so they were trespassers the SECOND york told them to leave NOT when the cops came think about it if there was someone in your house and you called the cops would you want them to stand around kindly asking the trespasser to please leave or would you want them to bodily haul the a$$hole out?
#6 - they are not a recognized campus group and therefore have no rights as a group on campus because after all how do we know that their membership comprises entirely or even partly of york students?
#7 - one police officer was also sent to the hospital because they were injured on duty and yes they were on duty because even when you hire a police officer to monitor such events they are considered to be working overtime but are still completely under the auspices of the toronto police
#8 - (maybe most importantly) you are not allowed to protest in vari hall. ever. |
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| abort416 |
as well
http://www.yorku.ca/secretariat/leg...eg/presreg2.htm
III. STANDARDS OF STUDENT CONDUCT
Students may think, speak, write, create, study, learn, pursue social, cultural and other interests and associate together for all of these purposes, subject to the requirement that they respect the rights of members of the University and general communities to pursue these same freedoms and privileges. This general standard encompasses a number of more specific expectations which cannot be fully foreseen or exhaustively enumerated. By way of example, and without limiting the generality of the foregoing, students are expected:
to abide by all federal, provincial and municipal laws, so far as these are relevant to student conduct;
to refrain from conduct which harms or threatens harm to:
- the proper functioning of University programmes or activities
as i mentioned above classes and an exam had to be cancelled because of the protest i think that counts as harming the proper functioning of university programmes wouldnt you? |
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| Kytracid |
The cops here are way too soft. Some other places i can think off, they woulda given the crowd about 10 seconds to disperse beforin chucking a few canisters of tear gas into the crowd and then setting the dogs on their ass...i'm speaking from personal experience, and there's nothing quite like an angry k-9 running towards you through a cloud of smoke to make you think twice about your convictions. ;)
Not to mention the exhilaration of running away before a gang of riot police storm the crowd you're in and start walloping you with sticks. LOL. Nothing like a good beating at the hands of the police to remove every inch of that psuedo-rebalion that i bet almost 75% of the protestors were feeling.
Ahhh...the memories ! |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by abort416
im a york student and there is a couple of things that none of you have mentioned which are very relevant
#1 - 650 students were disrupted by this and a midterm had to be cancelled due to the LOUD protest using MEGAPHONES after a member of the offending group (GRAIN) was already expelled from york last year for using a megaphone in the exact same place; vari hall they know theyre not allowed to use them and that it disrupts classes
#2 - they tried to grab the cops GLOCK PISTOL loaded with 14 ROUNDS of LIVE AMMUNITION now why would peace protesters need a gun?
#3 - the protesters used their megaphone as a weapon hitting two cops on the head with it and it was with enough force that the megaphone was in pieces afterwards i know because i saw it with my own two eyes
#4 - a protester poured hot coffee on a cop
#5 - york is private property and even on public property you need a permit to protest or hold such a large assembely so they were trespassers the SECOND york told them to leave NOT when the cops came think about it if there was someone in your house and you called the cops would you want them to stand around kindly asking the trespasser to please leave or would you want them to bodily haul the a$$hole out?
#6 - they are not a recognized campus group and therefore have no rights as a group on campus because after all how do we know that their membership comprises entirely or even partly of york students?
#8 - one police officer was also sent to the hospital because they were injured on duty and yes they were on duty because even when you hire a police officer to monitor such events they are considered to be working overtime but are still completely under the auspices of the toronto police
#9 - (maybe most importantly) you are not allowed to protest in vari hall. ever. |
Where's #7? :p |
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