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Japanese Language (pg. 2)
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| Perfect_Cheezit |
There are a number of people on the forums here that all speak at least some very basic Japanese. Lira, for example, took the JLPT and passed; Nou and Yan both can speak some and I spent a summer in Japan so I can speak a limited amount, even if my reading is terrible. I have a background in Mandarin Chinese as my world language in high school right now, and since most kanji are borrowed Chinese characters they aren't so bad.
But I'd definitely learn the furigana before you start learning larger amounts of kanji, so you will be able to at least write out what you want to say if you don't know the written kanji for it. |
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| Lira |
Hello there, I'm studying to be a Japanese Teacher at university (I'm on the later half of my second year) and I often study by myself as well (which has helped me a lot in the proficiency examinations), so I guess I know how to help you here.
I'm not sure about what you mean when you say you learned "75" kanji, but I believe you learned the meaning and possibly one or two readings. This would sure help you in the future and work as a mnemonic exercise, but I strongly advise you not to do it as it might burn you out unnecessarily. Not to mention that, if you begin with kanji, you won't find much use to them, so you're bound to forget as fast as you learn. Besides, you won't learn the tones that way.
Floorfiller's order was pretty accurate, but I'd like to write a bit more about it :)
- Hiragana: Best place to start. In the beginning, run away from romaji like the plague, as it may lead to problems with your pronounciation and you might also get addicted to that "easier way of writing". Pay proper attention to stroke order as well. As for katakana, do learn it but don't mind it too much - it's not nearly as used as hiragana (or kanji, for comparison basis) so obviously it will take longer to get used to.
- Grammar/vocabulary: Naturally, you need to improve step by step. Learn the daily expressions, ways of introducing yourself and, above all things: listen to the language as much as you can, specially because the pronounciation of the Japanese language seems to be a bit tricky to people whose mother tongue is English (specially the intonation). You're going to get used to hiragana and you will slowly learn the kanji along with the vocabulary, so there's no need to rush.
Learning how the tones work is quite interesting if you want your Japanese to sound natural. Most likely, you're listening to the language spoken in Tokyo, but tones tend to change more than anything in the various dialects so watch out not to get yourself confused.
- Kanji: Think of kanji like numbers. They give you an idea and a hint about what the pronounciation might be. The same way "2" can be read as "two" and "20" can be read as twenty and "2nd" means "second", "今" is read "ima" and "今日" is read "Kyou" and "今年" is read "kotoshi". The idea of "now" is somehow present, as the sense of "pair" exists on "2". Do not, by any means, learn too many kanji with once in the beginning. Chances are you're overlooking stroke order and the importance (or existence) of radicals, and that will cause you problems in the long run.
- More grammar/vocabulary: Language is like a board game. Grammar are the rules and vocabulary are the pieces. If you have too many pieces and you don't know the rules, the pieces are quite useless. If you know all the rules, but you don't have enough pieces, you won't go too far, but at least you know what you're doing. Therefore, give grammar a special attention, and try to use the vocabulary you know as often as you can. Don't try to master Japanese in a heartbeat. Repeat, repeat and... yes, repeat. Keep practising, both the written and the spoken language. Also try to listen to the language as much as you can.
As for the difficulty of the language, it is on the eye of the beholder. Sure the structure is different, but it is so awfully simple that young Japanese kids often use structures that foreigners learn after years and years of study. Besides, after you practise for a while, you get used to it. The language is also often so regular it isn't even funny. I'd say the hardest part is indeed the writing (having those bloody kanjis all over the place, with several different readings). Other than that, there are the natural difficulties of every language: acquiring grammar and vocabulary, to the point you become fluent.
So, answering your question: Can you learn Japanese by yourself? Sure you can. All teachers do is showing the path, you do the rest. However, if you're not used to learning languages, having the help of a teacher is strongly advised. Personally, I study by myself as much as I can, getting all sorts of extra info I can, but I often ask my teachers for more material/learning strategies :)
ps.: Get yourself a proper book (not those pocket ones), a couple of dictionaries (English <-> Japanese; kanji dictionary) or similar websites. The books/on-line courses should provide you a good methodology and the dictionaries, well, they're always handy. |
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| Yan |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
Most likely, you're listening to the language spoken in Tokyo, but tones tend to change more than anything in the various dialects so watch out not to get yourself confused. |
The dialects get to me. Really, they do. Lira-yan.:stongue:
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
Chances are you're overlooking stroke order and the importance (or existence) of radicals, and that will cause you problems in the long run. |
Oh how I hate you stroke order...
| quote: | Originally posted by CityKitty
you should talk to Yan, if you know who he is. As far as I know, he's taking Japanese at Stony Brook. HE could probably teach you something. |
Heehee. The topic already caught my eye so I've posted in here multiple times. Thanks for the promoting, though. :) |
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| töbias |
I learnt Japanese for 5 years and was nearly fluent.
Have forgotten it all now though... |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yan
The dialects get to me. Really, they do. Lira-yan.:stongue: |
Heh? Where do they say "yan"? :p |
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| Yan |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
Heh? Where do they say "yan"? :p |
An acquaintance of mine said it was in the Fukushima prefecture that he heard it used. I just took his word for it. Is it true? |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yan
An acquaintance of mine said it was in the Fukushima prefecture that he heard it used. I just took his word for it. Is it true? |
Never heard of it, but it might be true. The only dialects I can tell something about is Hiroshima-ben and Oosaka-ben. And a little of what I believe to be Nagano-ben :p
edit: In all pages I googled about fukushima-ben, I couldn't find this use. However, I found some funny things, such as this. |
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| Yan |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
Never heard of it, but it might be true. The only dialects I can tell something about is Hiroshima-ben and Oosaka-ben. And a little of what I believe to be Nagano-ben :p |
Aside from Tokyo, of course.
... Unless it falls under one of those? Definitely not Hiroshima, right?
What's up with Hiroshima-ben replacing iru with oru? Crazy bass tarts.
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
edit: In all pages I googled about fukushima-ben, I couldn't find this use. However, I found some funny things, such as this. |
Haha. OMG so weird. |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yan
Unless it falls under one of those? Definitely not Hiroshima, right?
What's up with Hiroshima-ben replacing iru with oru? Crazy bass tarts. |
No, it doesn't fall under neither of those.
As for Hiroshima replacing iru with oru, "oru" is a handy word, replacing both "iru" and "aru" (at least here in the colonies), so there's no risk of confusing any of these words :D It's just a different way the language's developed. |
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| astroboy |
Wanna learn any language? Ask LIra!
He's like the resident linguist. :) |
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| brian |
Many thanks for the advice, Lira. Great points in there. Earlier tonight I got in touch with the student here who teaches the Japanese classes, and thankfully he seemed very willing to help. I was kinda worried about that because other teaching assitants here see every opportunity to help students as an opportunity to make some tutoring cash...thankfully thats not the case here.
Anyway, thanks again Lira, will keep those points in mind as I learn more in the coming weeks. :) |
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| Yan |
| quote: | Originally posted by brian
I was kinda worried about that because other teaching assitants here see every opportunity to help students as an opportunity to make some tutoring cash... |
I hate s like that.
Good luck in your studies! Maybe we'll have a chat in nihon-gese in the future?
NOTE: Don't mind the "nihon-gese" term. I just think it sounds funny so that's what I say. |
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