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Easter (pg. 2)
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| DrUg_Tit0 |
| Gee, what a surprise! What's next, someone will say that Christmass is also a pagan holiday that originally celebrated the winter solstice and the beginning of spring!?! Oh wait! It is! :eek: |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0
Gee, what a surprise! What's next, someone will say that Christmass is also a pagan holiday that originally celebrated the winter solstice and the beginning of spring!?! Oh wait! It is! :eek: |
Beat ya! First reply! ;) |
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| St_Andrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by Blue Balls
First, I am not going to pretend I am religious because I am not. :) But I do understand the importance of the role religion does play for society .
I always thought it was more disobeying his laws maliciously
There are different meanings of being 'nice' or 'moral'. That is the main difference between religions or philosophers. Jesus had a different 'nice' message than what the Jews believed or Mohammad. It is these differences in each ideology that truly make each special and unique.
From my understanding, God has given us the choice or free will but consequently face the costs. He has told us in advance what to do and what not to do. It's one's own responsibility to accept or reject it.
I see the relationship differently. I see it as a bunch of rules and philosophies on how to live ones life.
Is restraint from lust a bad thing? no.
Is restraint from greed a bad thing? no.
The above are just examples of the 'rules' or philosophy of God.
I don’t agree that people are born moral or righteous. We are hedonists at birth until we are taught otherwise. What we are taught and what we believe is eventually what makes us individuals with a free will.
Just saying ‘oh be nice to everyone’ is a simple and safe answer. That is not a real moral philosophy to compare to Judaism, Christianity, Islam, or any philosophical scholar. |
what is free will tho? |
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| DrUg_Tit0 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Blue Balls
I always thought it was more disobeying his laws maliciously |
Well, actually that's just a part of it. If we were to take catholic doctrine for granted, then every good person who is not familiar with the teachings of the bible, or who can be described as a virtuous non-believer (meaning a person who is familiar with but does not believe in the bible while still being good, humble, and obeying basic moral laws compatible with those in the bible) is sentenced to the first circle of hell. There's no torture or eternal pain happening there, but people who are living there have this constant feeling of mild sadness and that something is missing from their lives.
If we were to take the bible literally, then only 144000 jews can go to heaven and everyone else is sentenced to eternal torture in hell.
| quote: | | There are different meanings of being 'nice' or 'moral'. That is the main difference between religions or philosophers. Jesus had a different 'nice' message than what the Jews believed or Mohammad. It is these differences in each ideology that truly make each special and unique. |
The basic message is not that much different. Sure, the actual interpretations of those words vary mildly from society to society, but generally they are pretty similar. Moral is after all not a human invention, it is a sort of behaviour that exists in every group animal species. Jesus formalized that behaviour pretty nicely in a sentence "do not do to others what you don't want the others to do to you". That is not a divine law, it is a law of nature. Without such a law people could not live as group animals. It is our natural adaptation to living in large groups where individuals are often dependant upon one another. Take vampire bats for example. When some of them don't get any blood during feeding, their neighbours vomit up some of the blood they ate and give it to them for free. Occasionally, a bat won't give up his blood. When the other bats see that, not one of them will give that first bat any blood ever again, and that stingy bat usually dies out of hunger pretty quickly. What seemed as a gesture of benevolence and altruism in those bats is infact behaviour necessarry for their survival inside the group. Natural selection forces those bats to be "moral", because bats that don't have that inherent desire to share their blood when asked have a considerably lesser chance of surviving. Same goes for people. Those that are doing harm to others usually get kicked out of the society or killed. In other words, nature forces people to have some moral standards. Religion is simply a partially successful attempt to formalize those natural laws.
| quote: | | From my understanding, God has given us the choice or free will but consequently face the costs. He has told us in advance what to do and what not to do. It's one's own responsibility to accept or reject it. |
Which is really kinda stupid. I mean, why give someone free will and then dictate what they should or should not do.
| quote: | | I see the relationship differently. I see it as a bunch of rules and philosophies on how to live ones life. |
Yes, but that is only one part of the story. The other part of the story is basically "believe in me and every nonsense that's written in the bible or you will die a horrible death and burn in hell for eternity".
| quote: | | I don’t agree that people are born moral or righteous. We are hedonists at birth until we are taught otherwise. What we are taught and what we believe is eventually what makes us individuals with a free will. |
Well, to a degree that is true. Our upbringing plays a significant part in deciding the degree of our moral standards and obedience to the society. The leaders of the society can usually allow themselves more deviation from the standard moral norms than can those who are in lower positions. However, they too have limits, and they usually don't go around murdering whomever they want for no reason.
| quote: | | Just saying ‘oh be nice to everyone’ is a simple and safe answer. That is not a real moral philosophy to compare to Judaism, Christianity, Islam, or any philosophical scholar. |
Well, it is a simplification, but it's pretty much correct. |
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| ::TranceVanDyk:: |
| the roman catholic church which has many pagan aspects to it, was on a mission to turn pagan holidays into christian ones. hence, we have easter as the supposed death of jesus christ. nobody knows the exact date, so this one was chosen as a commemoration for the most important event that christianity is based off of. same with christmas. |
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| nic01445 |
you know what this thread is missing?
evangelical christians. |
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| LiquidX |
Blue Balls.. WHAT IS YOUR WHOLE POINT ?!?!?!?!:rolleyes:
Is it a SIN to celebarte Easter, which represents the resurrection ?
This same day is the remembrance of Passover..
How do I connect both ?!? .. Well, blood from a Sheap was used, placed over the doors of the Sons of Israel to be freed from the Egiptians.... to later see Jesus Christ, in religius terms, Gods Sheap, whose Blood and suffering was used, in symbol, to redeem and free all human kind from sin.. I remember both events around the same time. |
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| ::TranceVanDyk:: |
| quote: | Originally posted by nic01445
you know what this thread is missing?
evangelical christians. |
i champion a christian worldview. though to say im a christian would make me into a hypocrite because i dont live it. |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by LiquidX
Blue Balls.. WHAT IS YOUR WHOLE POINT ?!?!?!?!:rolleyes:
Is it a SIN to celebarte Easter, which represents the resurrection ?
This same day is the remembrance of Passover..
How do I connect both ?!? .. Well, blood from a Sheap was used, placed over the doors of the Sons of Israel to be freed from the Egiptians.... to later see Jesus Christ, in religius terms, Gods Sheap, whose Blood and suffering was used, in symbol, to redeem and free all human kind from sin.. I remember both events around the same time. |
Apart from that there is no evidence whatsoever that there was an exodus from Egypt by the Jews, so that story with the plagues and the blood crosses on the door almost certainly never happened... |
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| ProDiGaL |
| Well the romans had to make the religions more,.. ahmm "marketable" hence the pagan influences, pagans worshiped the sun, sunday was their special day which got put into christainity, but im just repeating what most of you allready know....... |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by ProDiGaL
Well the romans had to make the religions more,.. ahmm "marketable" hence the pagan influences, pagans worshiped the sun, sunday was their special day which got put into christainity, but im just repeating what most of you allready know....... |
Worshiping nature makes far more sense than worshiping some imaginary being if you ask me... |
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| LiquidX |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
Apart from that there is no evidence whatsoever that there was an exodus from Egypt by the Jews, so that story with the plagues and the blood crosses on the door almost certainly never happened... |
It's written in the Bible, and if you want everything on the Bible to be proven with a picture evidence, then I guess you have your own opinion and beliefs.. I, on the other hand, believe in it.. hence this story is connected and is based on a bunch of other events, which go far more complext to discuss on the board, and by which I dont really have the time to.. one rejecting this, I might as well take it that you also reject the other things that evolve from this events.. but hey, is about faith, and beliefs .. religion is far more complicated the politics, so I should leave it at that. ;)
I dont know why the thumbs down at the start of the thread.. but hey, is a holiday wich resembes and remembers something significant to the religious.. is not about what Pagans though. |
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